Doug: Today, I invited my friend Dusti to ask me a bunch of questions about podcasting. I’ve been focusing more and more on podcasting and YouTube over the past really like four or five years. So you can see the progression from me publishing a few more videos over on YouTube to starting. the podcast back in 2019.
I started a new podcast in 2021, and I’m starting a new one in like a month or so. More details to follow, but I’m starting a brand new podcast, really pulling together all the best practices that I have learned over the past few years. And. You know what they say? I mean, people just can’t sit still. If you have that entrepreneur mindset, you keep thinking, I want to start something new and I am not different at all.
So I’m starting a new show and you can get more details. If you’re subscribed, if you pay attention to this. podcast, then you’ll know about it. I’m going to cross promote like crazy. But today I invited my friend Dusti to ask me a bunch of questions. So we’re going to start at the very beginning, uh, niche selection, building an audience.
Some of the just general questions that a person might have.
We’ll link up to Dusti and the other interviews that she has done with me over on my other podcast, Mile High Fi, which is about personal finance and financial independence.
Since I’m starting a new podcast, I thought it would be great to invite some folks to join me to launch their podcast as well, or at least Get the plan in place, even if you’re not ready to start your show yet. The thing is there’s been all these Google updates in the last few months. The SERPs have been in a bit of a churn and one of the things that I did from the very beginning was have a diverse platform, especially on the traffic generation side.
So I started a blog But I also had a email list and over time I added YouTube and then I added a podcast and I think it’s really important to diversify your whole platform Especially independent platforms like podcasting or an email list. So anyway, I’m having a boot camp
The boot camp is going to start January 15th, 2024.
I don’t have all the details ironed out at this time. Uh, to be honest with you, I was sort of procrastinating a little bit, trying to figure out exactly the best way to do it. And then I thought, well, fuck it. I’m just going to get started. I’m going to put it in the email list. I’m going to have a couple ideas lined up and I’ll be able to iron out some of the details once I have some forward progress.
So that’s exactly what I’ve done. Here are the things I do know it will be a paid offer. So. It costs money. There’s going to be a lot of interaction with me starting January 15th. There will be weekly group Office hours really kind of like a group mastermind meeting And we’re gonna meet between 6 and 10 or 12 weeks I haven’t quite decided but something like that 6 to 12 weeks roughly there will be some one on one coaching I will detail what I’m doing for my own personal podcast launch.
I will give you the basics of recording audio and video. YouTube will be a component of this as well as editing. I’ll let you know about my tech stack as well as automation, the audio mastering, any software that I’m using. I’ll let you know about how marketing and helping to spread the word about the podcast and about Advertising and earning money.
I’ll give you some ideas about show formats. I’ll talk about launching on the YouTube side. I’ll talk about building a podcast and the YouTube channel with the idea to sell it. So that’s a little Easter egg for you. If people are paying attention and I’ll talk about. content creation with sustainability in mind.
The main thing you don’t want to do is burn out. And this was very obvious to me after I chatted with Dusti. By the time we finished this podcast interview slash FAQ session, It was very clear that one thing I’ve done is I make sure that I’m not going to burn out and I want to make sure that I could do this for the long haul.
So if you’re interested, follow the link in the description. It’ll allow you to either sign up for the email list and, , or be tagged so that I could send you specific emails. If you’re interested in starting your own podcast, which I think everybody should start their own podcast. All right, let’s get to that fake use.
Doug: Hey, what’s going on. Welcome to the Doug show. My name’s Doug Cunnington. And today we’re going to talk about podcasting. It’s a very meta sort of idea, but I do have a special guest, my friend, Dusti Young to sit with me today and ask me all the questions that she could possibly think of about podcasting.
And we’ll get into , all the details. I’ll actually reveal, , something I’m planning on launching a new podcast. So we’ll talk about some of the details and Dusti doesn’t even know. All that that entails, but we’re going to get into it. There’s a lot of stuff, so we’re just going to. Jump right in. So Dusti, welcome.
Thanks for joining me today.
Dusti: Thanks for having me, Doug. I’m excited to be here and to learn about all things podcasting.
Doug: You’ve been on my other show a few times and completely different subject matter, but people can check that out. I’ll link up to those for the people that don’t know you at all. Can you give a little intro about yourself?
Just, you know, 60, 90 seconds, just. What are you all about?
Dusti: Short and sweet? I love it. So I live in Longmont here with Doug, which is fantastic Um, I love to run part of the financial independence community work in financial wellness So that is kind of my jam and in my free time. I like to hang out make cookies and You know just find new things to experience
Doug: And you’re good friends with my dog, Georgie.
Dusti: Mm hmm. I love Georgie. Yeah.
Doug: You’re one of the few people that like really get along with her. So, so that’s cool. Okay. So we, we literally have a list of questions here, and if you want to check out the list of questions, there will be links and stuff like that. You can follow the link in the description here, and you could.
Download it all and kind of have it a cheat sheet of all the shit that we’re going to cover today. So Dusti, I’m just going to turn it over to you and maybe before we hit the questions, you could talk a little bit about why you do have so many questions about podcasting and maybe where you’re at with all of this.
Dusti: Yeah, I. I’m so excited to be here and to be able to ask you these questions because we are getting ready to launch our own podcast. So myself and two other people are getting ready to launch something called Forget About Money or the FAM podcast, which you can find on Instagram or Facebook and Doug will provide links.
And honestly, I have no idea where to start, so I’m looking forward to picking your brain and finding out all the things that I should know or that I might want to know or that I might even be forgetting to ask so that we can sound professional and we can look professional and we can figure out how to make it successful.
Doug: Awesome. How long have you thought about starting a podcast or producing content or anything like that?
Dusti: It’s a good question. I have actually been thinking about it for years and I have always been too afraid to actually get going so I’m curious if Other people have that same problem where you can just get in your head and you can think oh I’m sure my opinion won’t matter and it’s probably the same as everyone else’s and who really cares about what this person is doing when There are a billion people in this space and it’s funny I have an online journal and it reminds you of things that you wrote a couple years ago and The thing that popped up today was three years ago.
You wrote your first blog post that I I’ve never published.
Doug: Oh, wow. Is there a blog out there?
Dusti: There is. And you’ve just never published anything? I’ve never published anything because I’ve always thought, well, who really cares what I have to say? Everyone else has an opinion. So it kind of lends to this first question about how do you decide what your podcast is going to be and what your, what your niche is going to be?
Doug: So I will answer that question and I won’t dodge every question that you ask, by the way, but I realize is, I’m about to answer a couple of things in a couple of thoughts I had based on what you just said, I’m going to have a lot of probably contradictory answers where, especially with a mindset stuff.
So when you were like, ah, what do I have to say that hasn’t already been said, or why does anyone care? And there is one portion of the advice that I. I’m going to give where it’s like, yeah, no one cares about you or what you think. And it doesn’t matter. And there’s a million other people. And also it’s really important for you to put your voice out there and your opinions are important.
So literally it contradicts each other, but one of them helps you to like publish and not be too shy about it. And. To get over imposter syndrome. And the, the other piece is you are unique. And even if you are talking about a topic that has been covered thousands of times before by people that are more qualified than you, your own opinion and your own thoughts and the way you approach it and your story that goes along with it is really important.
And that will be what separates you, even though. Most people don’t care about you. So just keep that in mind and call me out when you’re like, didn’t you just say that X, Y, Z, but now you’re contradicting it. So yeah, let me know when I do that. So I could clarify. You asked, how did I choose my podcast topic and niche?
So I cheated. So this show was spawned from my blog. So it’s called niche site project. I was blogging for how many years, six years before I started this podcast. And I already had a YouTube presence also. So I cheated. I already had a bunch of content around the topic area. So I just repurposed it into audio format.
So. I really cheated. I mentioned earlier that I am going to start a new podcast and there’s a small chance that I’m going to backtrack and be like, fuck it. I’m not going to do it. But, uh, I’m probably like 90 percent certain I’m going to start a show kind of splintered off of this show where it’s more focused on SEO and marketing kind of at a higher level.
So a lot of what I cover on this show. A lot of success stories, a lot of it is more like intrigue level information, and I could just cover more advanced stuff on the Doug show. However, I had this idea of starting a podcast with a intention of selling it. And six to nine months. And the reason why is there are companies that want to advertise on this show.
Typically they’re marketing agencies or some big company that wants to run ads. And I have seen. Them try to start their own shows. And a lot of times it doesn’t work out like they they’re running an agency. They don’t have the podcasting chops, or maybe they try to hire someone and they’re sort of disconnected.
The point being, if I could create sort of a standalone entity, I could sell that to a company. That is trying to start their own podcast or that wants to start their own podcast and just like have everything packaged up and the systems in place and just pass it along to them. So that’s why I’m like, I could start a new show and it’ll be an interesting experiment, whether it works or not.
Um, maybe nobody wants to buy it for some reason. I’d be surprised. But the, the whole process will be interesting and there’s some other pieces that go along with it. But that’s the reason why I’m choosing that topic area is because I see companies trying to start a podcast in that area with the right audience and it would be highly valuable for them to get that audience.
The other reason is. I know the topic area and I have a bunch of contacts already. So I’m like leaning into my strengths and making it much easier than if I was starting somewhere where I didn’t know anyone. So I already know a shitload of people. I know people that organize conferences. So I could like tap into that network and really easily, um, get really good guests and have, uh, really all of the experience I’ve had leading up until this point and just like focus on that one show.
Dusti: Yeah. So essentially you’re just going to use all of this work that you’ve put in and say, okay, I see this need. I can fill this need. And let’s do this experiment to see if anyone will pay for this. Because I’m, I’m excited about the upfront work. It seems like you enjoy the upfront work. of getting the podcast going, getting it started, and then it’s setting someone else up for success too, because they don’t have the ability to get things off the ground.
Right. Yep. Can we go back just a little bit, because you said that you cheated. And I’m not going to let you off the hook because you didn’t really cheat. You put years and years into this blog. So what got you excited about that content that then led you to spin off?
Doug: When I learned about websites and affiliate marketing and such, I learned about it from a podcast.
And a blog, and I was really excited about it. And a lot of times when we learn from a specific format or, uh, plat, a couple of platforms all, all together, cause I watched YouTube as well. You see how they helped people, right? I was helped by the, those creators and I was like, Oh, maybe I could do that too.
And that, I mean, it’s just. Something that happens and I see it in the financial independent space too, where we learn from some, some bloggers and we’re like, Oh, we could start a blog also and put our own spin on it. And I think it’s just kind of a natural progression. And one, one of the, I’m going to mess up the, like the, the cliche, but like.
Entrepreneurs need to be like delusional enough to think that they can succeed, but like smart enough to like plan and execute and do the work. But you have to be like, kind of dumb enough to think, Oh yeah, like I could do this naively. So, so yeah, I was just super interested. The other part, which I, it became very apparent later, but if you’re able.
able to teach it, and you have to write about it and think about it more, you know the material much better than if you just execute it. So if you have to teach someone how to do something or teach a concept, whether it’s a podcast or on YouTube or whatever, you have like a higher level of mastery and experience than if you’re just doing the work.
Dusti: So if you were going to tell someone how to pick their own niche, what would you?
Doug: I would focus on things that you’re super interested in, potentially obsessed that you would have. enough interest to stick with it for a long time, because in my opinion, it really is a, it’s a grind and everything’s going to go slower than you think it’s going to be harder.
So you may as well, you need to enjoy the material. So at least you enjoy that. Even if very few people listen or pay attention, at least you enjoyed. The information that you were, um, creating or the topics that you were covering. So pick something that you’re interested in for sure. Like I mentioned before, I, I, I cheated cause I was like, all right, I’ve, I’ve built this network and I’m going to.
Lean into it more for the new podcast. I could have tried to pivot into something where I’m like trying to start from scratch, but that’s really dumb. Right. I’ve put all the time and, and like social capital and all that stuff where like I can, I can use that and everybody wins. Right. So if I have, you know, people in my network, I can help promote their stuff, but I’m also getting great content to publish on the new show.
Dusti: Yeah. And it’s something you enjoy. So why wouldn’t you keep doing it? Yep.
Doug: Yep. So I would say, you know, you got to find something that you’re, you’re really interested in. Some people are, uh, you know, they might do a show that has a ton of like general topics and those people typically have interview shows, not always, but typically interview shows and they’ll.
They’ll really just be a obsessive, uh, very interested person in other people and just having conversations. And I like a lot of those shows because they’re, you know, they skip around. I don’t listen to every single episode, but typically, um, those people just like to have long form conversations.
Dusti: Which makes sense.
And it’s that person that they’re interviewing that’s keeping them excited and keeping them coming back versus the content. And yeah, there can be value in both. So I think you’re right. It’s choosing what is motivating for you if you’re going to do this. And if you take me down to just the basics. So I want to start a podcast.
I want to make sure it sounds professional. I want it to look good. I want to know how do I do all that? Like what type of equipment should I get? What does my budget need to look like? How much can I do this with my tax refund? Do I need to save up for a long time? Am I shopping on Amazon?
Doug: Okay. So I have, this is something where you’ll want to refer to the cheat sheet.
So there’s a, I mean, you could do it for very cheap, very, very cheap. And I do recommend go ahead and buy like a, a decent mic. So I’ll recommend two. One of them is kind of on the more, uh, basic and budget end, but I recorded hundreds of shows. It’s the one that Tim Ferriss still uses on, on most of his episodes.
It’s the Audio Technica 2100X. And you can get it new for about, I think it’s about a hundred bucks. It might be a tiny bit more. I have purchased two of them used on eBay. Generally people don’t throw around their elect electronic equipment and. It’s in pretty good shape. Like, I mean, it looks brand new.
Like it looks like someone thought they were going to start something podcast and then didn’t do it. So, um, one of them actually like bought and sent to someone that I recorded with fairly often, just a guest on one of my shows and. Actually, they still have it. I need to get it. Cause we’re not recording stuff, but the relatively inexpensive, they sound very good and they, they sort of block out the, uh, noisier environment.
So even if you don’t have a perfect room, it’s a good mic and it. Picks up the noise, like right in front of it versus like the whole room. The other mic, which is the ones we’re using here. These are higher end. They’re Shure MV7s and both of the mics that I mentioned, the Audio MV7, they’re both USB compatible, so you could just plug it into your laptop.
They also have XLR cables, so you could hook it into a mixer, like the one we’re using here. And the reason why I have a mixer is, uh, We have the capability to record four mics in here and we, we do it, you know, every now and then we’ll have four people in here, but. You can hook it up to a recorder. And the recorder I’m using is a zoom pod track P4, and it’s awesome.
It’s only about 150 bucks or so. Again, I bought it used on eBay and it was much. You know, cheaper, these, uh, zoom pod tracks are not as sturdy as say like a pod track or sorry, a zoom H four N or an H five or six N those are a little more durable. These are pretty good. I’ve traveled like across the country with this.
And I’ve used my ATR 2100 because it’s a little bit easier to travel with than the MB7s and it works great. It works great. I’ve recorded it like FinCon and other, other places. So, um, the PodTrak P4 is really good. I have a Zoom H1n, which it doesn’t have any XLR cables, but it’s about a hundred dollars.
It sounds really, really. Good. And if you’re just one person, you could use that as a mic, hook it up to your laptop with a USB cable as well. But if you think you might want to record in the field, sometimes for whatever reason, maybe you’ll be out, um, in nature and you’re like, I’m going to record outside or.
Maybe you’re at a, like a campfire retreat and you’re like, all right, I’ll, I’ll want to be able to record like four people. We’ll all sit at a table. We’ll just set it down. You could use like the H1N and it’s very small. It’s like the size of, um, the. Audio Technica 2100. So anyway, it doesn’t have to be too much when you’ve added a couple of things in there, it can be a few hundred dollars.
If you’re like, I need to be able to record four people on the high quality mics, but if you are just recording with a couple other people and you just need your stuff, Dusti, the ATR 2100 is what I would recommend. Um, headphones. I recommend using corded headphones. I have. Audio Technica, I think they’re MX thirties.
And then those are, these are relatively inexpensive. And then I also have a Sony pro M D R seven five zero six. And those are like, you see these all around. Uh, they are a little bit more comfortable. The Sony’s are a little bit more comfortable. So at my desk over there, if I. Like editing or doing something for many hours, I’ll use those.
They just feel a little better, but these feel pretty good. Right?
Dusti: Yeah. These, I actually ordered a pair of these
Doug: Okay. Yep. And the thing is, um, I highly recommend using corded stuff as much as you can. I hate it when people try to use, uh, like AirPods and stuff, cause inevitably something gets kind of fucked up.
Um, so if you could use corded stuff. As much as you can, like these won’t fail. Right. I mean, the cords are fine. It didn’t really get in the way. So.
Dusti: Yeah, you don’t even notice them really. Yeah. And if, so, would you recommend that in addition to your podcast that you also do something on YouTube and have a video component?
And if so, then what do I need for the video component?
Doug: Yeah, I do recommend that. A lot of people will just listen to your podcast on YouTube. And they just use YouTube for everything. I, I kind of do that. Not, not always, but, um, I like YouTube a lot, so I recommend it. The other pro is you have some discoverability over on the YouTube side.
Um, so this is kind of getting into the marketing, but don’t worry. I’ll answer your question about cameras. So the, the video. On YouTube has a chance to like get out in front of new audiences a little bit easier than the audio version of the podcast. Totally different audiences, totally different market.
So usually, especially if you’re recording remotely, you’re probably recording video anyway. So it’s no big deal. You. Should be able to get pretty good video from just a normal, like 100 webcam. I have like a Logitech, I think it’s like a 920 something. They have 4K versions that are a little bit more expensive and I’d recommend one of those.
The big thing is to have good lighting. So you see, I have a lot of lights around here. You don’t need to have. This setup, this is kind of big, right? It took me a couple of years to accumulate this shit, but you can see over on my desk, I have a small ring light. You, you just need like one or two of those, depending on where you’re sitting.
If you have good lighting, your video will look really, really good. So there were, it was a couple of years before I added the DSLR to the system. And people were like, your video looks super awesome. And all I was just sitting in front of the window. Like, that was it. So, and I was just using, like, my MacBook little, uh, webcam on there.
So, that was it. Yeah, what’s so funny? What did I say?
Dusti: No, I’m just thinking, if you are just listening to this, you should really go check out the YouTube video. Because this setup is um, it’s almost a little intimidating. It’s a fucking pro setup. Yeah. You’re, you’re walking into a photo shoot and I’m like, Oh, and then every time I come, I think maybe I should wear makeup.
Did I do my hair? I don’t think I did my hair. So I tend to forget that we’re even on video because all of this is so nice, but you’re right. It makes a huge difference if you all set the lighting right. And if you, I see that you. I have made this a little bit more soundproof as well. Is that kind of what the technique is here?
Doug: So, we’re in the basement. So, I’ll describe the area. We’re in the basement and there is cloth that I hung up. I just went to like Hobby Lobby. Got like cheap fabric and then just uh, Use like clips and hung it up very, very, uh, low tech. It was literally the easiest fucking thing that I could do. I’m I mainly did that for the visual appeal.
Funny enough. It looks bad if you look up close, like we can see it in real life, but on the video, it just looks dark. It just looks like a dark background
Dusti: like an amazing dark background.
Doug: Yeah. People walk down here and they’re like, wow, it looks different than I thought, but like the video looks really good. So. Funny enough, the audio down here is pretty decent.
It’s concrete floor, but I have a couple rugs. There’s flooring joists that are exposed. And I think that really helps diffuse the sound. And you’re bringing up a really good point. The most important thing for sound, really, Get to have an okay mic, but I’d rather have someone using their corded headphones with a little mic on there for their phone.
I’d rather them use that in a very good room than a very good mic in a shitty room. So if you went upstairs, we have a bunch of glass for the windows. The ceiling’s all flat. It’s wood floor. If you record upstairs, if we sat up at the kitchen table, it would be even if we use really good mics, it would sound worse.
Then if we use crappy mics down here, so that said, it is very important for you to figure out how to reduce the flat, hard surfaces in the room that you’re recording. So if you have some stuff on the wall, if you have like bookshelves, books are great again, kind of the irregular pattern that won’t reflect the sound right back.
Um, I also have some soundproof stuff against. One of the walls. I only put it up because there is just like some studs, some studs up there. I don’t even need that. If I took that down, you could not tell a difference at all. So, um, the room just happens to be a good room for it, even though there’s a lot of stuff that would make you think that it’s not.
But it’s only the concrete floor and then everything else is like a weird irregular surface.
Dusti: So it sounds like, if I just sum it up, the most important thing is making sure you have the corded headphones and a room that’s going to absorb sound.
Doug: Okay. And you, you could like record in your closet. If you’re doing video, right, you’d have to like fix the background, but closets are typically pretty good because there’s like coats or clothes or whatever
Dusti: Well, and I could just do something similar to what you’ve done and go to a Hobby Lobby or a Joann’s and pick up some fabric to cover up my clothes so that it doesn’t. Yep. Looks so bad, because no one, you guys, no one really sees what’s behind the curtain. So if you hang up the curtain, you’re, you look like you’re a professional.
Doug: Right. And there’s actually, there’s like stuff laying on the floor back there. Like, I mean, it doesn’t look super messy, but like, yeah, there’s some stuff I should clean up over there, but you can’t see it in the video. Yeah. So it doesn’t count. The other thing is, even if you’re doing video, if you were just solely a YouTuber, the sound is actually more important than like the lighting.
So as long as people can hear you, they’re all right. Even if the video is a perfect, of course, if you could do better video. That’s all right, but don’t let it hold you back. If your sound is off and it’s like hard to hear and understand, people will bounce. They will not check that out. So the audio is probably one of the top, most important things for YouTube.
And it does come down to like the room treatment and making sure it’s not echoey.
Dusti: And then what about editing? So if I record audio or I record video, do I need to worry that I need, I should be editing everything out? That people are going to be judging the way that I’m saying something or my accent or my Michigander in me?
Are those things that I need to worry about it or do you do very little editing
Doug: You have a good Midwest accent. You can’t really tell.
Dusti: Yeah. Um, I say a a little bit. Don’t mind that
Doug: Does it come back when you go visit family or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. So I, it’s up to you. I typically don’t edit that much because I don’t like it.
If one of my, one of my shows that, that I listened to that inspired me, it’s the Bilber podcast and he’s a comedian and he, he’s been podcasting for. Whatever 15 plus years, like he was one of the original podcasters out there. He’s a comedian. He’s an actor He’s like a pro so it’s hard for me to be like, okay, I’m just gonna try to emulate him It’s pretty tough, but his is very casual Sometimes he literally records it on his phone like in a hotel room and like he’s like I’m on my phone So it sounds a little shitty.
Sorry overall It’s up to you on how much you want to produce the show and how much you want to edit it. I recommend figuring out what is sustainable for you. So. Everything that I’m doing, I want it to be sustainable. We talk about fitness all the time. I don’t have like a perfectly optimized like workout plan, but I’m extremely consistent for a very long period of time.
And it works for me. And sometimes I’ll be like more inspired to work out harder or not. Same with the podcast, but I know if I had to edit everything all the time, I would hate it. So. I decided to just not make mistakes. So I recommend that. So just don’t make any mistakes when you’re talking.
Dusti: Just be perfect.
Okay. Done. No imposter syndrome here
Doug: If you mis If you mispronounce something, just roll with it if you want to. So, you can try to cover it up. I’ve probably done it a couple times where I like misspoke and I just kind of backtrack. Some people, and I’ve been on shows where they do this, they, they say some sentence, they mess up.
And they tell their editor, Hey, I’m going to say that again. And then there’s all this extra work. And the thing is, if you’re recording like an hour, like this is going to be a long podcast that we’re doing right now. There’s a ton of material. If we edited the whole thing and then you messed up and restated, stated things.
And then I did a couple of times, it would take probably three to four times as long to edit the episode, just to take that shit out versus just plow through. And. Some audiences are not going to like that as much and you’ll lose them. But again, I am thinking, how can I do this for the longterm? And mine is minimal editing.
That said, highly recommend a tool called Descript. I transferred, um, my process over to Descript and have you heard of this? Have I told you about it? So it will do audio and video editing and it’ll help you do. Tons of shit. So I’m just going to probably cover the tip of the iceberg here. But the main thing is it will, it’ll take your audio or video file.
I usually put in the audio or sorry, I usually put in the video file and it does a transcript for you. So. It will, the software pulls the transcript. It’s very good. It’s not perfect, but it’s probably like 95%, which is good enough for me. And then you could edit the video and the audio based on the transcript.
So instead of having to listen and watch and edit out the mistakes, you could just see the text and edit that and just delete the words you have the audio file and the wave and all that stuff. So you can still edit on a timeline, but you can edit. Via the text. The cool part is you can take out pauses, right?
There’s a couple of times where I’ve paused to think, and maybe it’s four seconds long, I get trimmed that down. Right. Very easy to take out pauses, make it half a second instead of four seconds. Or if I just want to stop and think for 10 seconds, I can easily edit that out. That, that does that tool Descript does it very well.
It can also detect filler words. So you can take out all the stuff. It will sound a little abrupt because a lot of times, especially me, my words. Like slur together and they are right on top of each other. So you may end up with some little, uh, just artifacts and little clips that sound a little funny, but it will take out like the hundreds of filler words that we use in the course of an hour long conversation.
That’s like the main stuff that’s really cool. They’ve just added AI. So you can say, give me the show notes for a podcast based on this transcript, and it’ll give you the summary of what you talked about. It will also do, this is new, it’ll also do YouTube chapters. So it’ll have the timestamps in there, which you could throw into your, uh, YouTube video.
You could put it in your podcast. If you have long shows, you could throw it in the podcast show notes as well. So it does all this stuff. And it’s, it’s like 30 bucks a month. It’s like, it does a ton of stuff and it makes a lot of things much easier than they were. It’ll master the audio as well. So you can add a little compression.
It will. You know, take out some, some of the hum or other background noises or whatever, and just like make it sound really, really good. It also links up to some remote recording software. I forget the one, I think it might be called a squad cast, but they just had a partnership. So you may have heard of like Riverside or some other software where you could link up.
Um, and do interviews. So Descript is now integrated with another company. So that’s included too. Normally that would be about 30 bucks a month also. So Descript does all this stuff and it’ll save a ton of time and it’ll allow you to do your remote recording.
Dusti: I love that it takes out filler words, especially when you are first starting something.
I find it very easy to throw out a lot of filler words because you’re nervous and the more nervous you are. The more seem to pop out. So it seems like that would be a huge win. Yeah. How do you decide if you want to do YouTube and a podcast? And if you do a podcast, where do I post it? Like, what platform do I put it on?
How does that work?
Doug: So for, for the, for the video, um, portion of it, and you can tell me if I’m not answering the exact thing that you’re asking here, but you, you just publish the interview. On YouTube. So you, you guys will have like a couple of people on there, maybe a guest here and there. I don’t know.
And then you could just, just, just publish that. You may have like a little video intro or something like that. You can put it together like really cheaply on like Canva, or you can do it in Descript. There’s all this B roll footage also and like sound effects and other video and images you could put in there if you want.
So you just I can’t wait to check out descript. Yeah, it’s really it’s pretty awesome I have a referral link like all this stuff here. So I I think there’s a new I know for a fact there’s a podcast section now on YouTube so you can put your podcast in a specific playlist and is classified as a podcast I I haven’t done it.
I, you know, you hear people and they’re like, Oh, you really got to do this. And I’m like, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t fucking do anything. Like the algorithm serves people, the videos that it thinks they want to watch, just because you say it’s a podcast, it’s not going to make a difference. 99 percent sure.
And people like generally are not specifically going, try to find new podcasts or anything on YouTube. To my knowledge that said. Just calling it a podcast. I don’t think that makes a difference, but there is a section there so you can best practice market a podcast, put in the proper playlist, and then it’s, that’s what you’re supposed to do.
Okay. Yeah. Um, but I’ve been doing podcasts for a long time, so I’m like, I gotta go back and like find the other shows. And I was like, ah. I’m not going to worry about it. Um, the other thing, as far as the platforms that you can put your show on generally, this will change over time, probably because it has changed over the years.
So Apple podcasts is, I think, going to be like the most. Used platform so you’ll have to go there it takes, uh, probably a couple of days if everything goes smoothly to Register your podcast. I think they they do a little check and then you have to you know, put a your cover art and a couple other things and some details about your show and then it’ll show up in the Apple podcast directory It used to be called like iTunes podcast or whatever, a lot of other platforms just feed off of that.
So it is, the whole thing is built on the RSS feed, which is just like the file format so that these different directories can read the file and the information about the show, the specific episodes and download the show to your player. And a lot of the secondary directories, I think they’re just triggered off of like what Apple has.
That said, Spotify is one of the other big players. So you’ll have to go specifically register there in a, I have heard there’s like more discoverability and algorithm help that you can get on the Spotify side. There’s also like Google podcasts. So you could register there. It’s really easy once you have the RSS feed.
Dusti: Does it cost anything to register?
Doug: No.
Dusti: Okay.
Doug: Yep. You just have to put the RSS feed in
Dusti: And if you want help marketing, so say I go to Spotify and I want them to push me up in the search, is that? Is that paid advertising? Is that free?
Doug: Oh, great question. I have no idea. Well, I know for a fact it’s not free. Um, otherwise it just wouldn’t work because everyone would be like, push me to the top.
I, to my knowledge, I don’t think you could like pay to get boosted or anything like that. There might be some like ad something or other that you could do, but I haven’t heard anyone talk about it. So I don’t think. I don’t think you could really do anything.
Dusti: And how does it work for Spotify and Apple and all of these podcast players where if I want to listen to an episode today and it tells me I can’t because I don’t have this premium version, is there any kickback?
Like, do you actually get kickback for having these successful podcasts on these platforms? Or does that just go into feeding the machine?
Doug: I don’t know. I don’t know.
Dusti: Sorry, that’s just like a random thing that has been on my brain because I do listen to a lot of podcasts that have premium and on Apple Well, I just downloaded the Apple podcast player because before I listened to podcasts on some platform that has now And so I thought, all right, I’ll go back to Apple.
And if you want to listen to the latest episode, it asks if you want to sign up for premium, which I don’t want to pay to play. I just want to listen to my podcast. And I’m curious if you are paying to play where that money goes.
Doug: I don’t know. I think if I had to guess, which is just stupid, I should, I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure, I’m pretty sure, um, that the show might get a little bit of money, but I’m sure the platform gets a pretty solid chunk.
I want to say, I want to say Apple typically takes like 30 percent of like revenue for, I think like apps and other stuff like that. Um, But my hunch is the creator does get something and I are these like really big shows. They are okay Yeah, I was gonna say like most people it’s just like we’re honored that someone would download the episode and then
Dusti: So excited that someone is listening to my podcast and is caring about my opinion and I’m sure that Yeah, maybe that’s not how Tim Ferris feels.
Doug: Yeah. And I don’t think, um, I haven’t, I haven’t seen that where it’s like you can’t download. I mean, I have seen some premium shows or heard about them, but I haven’t tried to listen to one where they were like, you have to be premium. Cause I would just be like, there’s too many other shows. Like they just lost
Dusti: That’s mine. And it’s only the most recent episode, so I can go back and listen to the second most recent one. So that’s what I do. I’m patient. I can wait a week. It’s really not that big of a deal. Kind of on that same vein though. What about dynamic ads? Okay. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Doug: Yeah. So this kind of goes in. So we talked about directories before, and we do have to think about hosting, and it will come into play for the dynamic ads. So, the dynamic ad insertion allows you to really run like ad campaigns on your whole back catalog. And, I have not done this so far. I will do it for the new show, and I’ll explain why.
Basically, if we were doing an ad on this show, I would You know, have the ad read, we do it and it would be in the middle of the show and we were not going to change it. Like technically in the future, I could edit the audio file, re upload it, but it’s a huge pain in the butt. So the dynamic ad insertion allows the, um, hosting company.
Or through the hosting company, um, I can record an ad, let’s say I’m launching a new product or something like that, and I want to put that on, not just on the new show, but all my other shows in the past. So then I could say run this ad in the beginning or in the middle or the end or all of it. Or. For like the new show, right?
So I’ll have some ads right at the beginning and I’ll use the dynamic ad insertion and have those Um the the whole time I’m running the show as time goes on. I may have other I’m, like hey, I could sell ad space for my whole back catalog. These are evergreen shows people download them and then I can have like a whole new set of campaigns or If I have a new, let’s say I’m selling the podcast, like I’m going to, right.
I could say, Hey, if you, if you like this show and you want to get in front of the audience, you could buy it. I’m selling this show and here are the details. You can get more information here. And I can put that on all the shows. And someone that might be interested may hear it.
Dusti: And then that would also benefit them because with a dynamic ad, after they buy it, then they can advertise, they can record whatever advertisement they want and apply it to all of the shows that they have purchased.
Doug: You got it. Yeah. That’s cool. Because there’s a good chance I’ll have like various competitors. And they would want to take those ads off of the shows if they wanted to buy it.
Dusti: Well, and some things just aren’t relevant anymore. So it’s nice to be able to change it and have it go with you instead of, Oh, well, this, let me tell you about this thing.
And I really want you to listen to this old episode, but right in the middle where we’re advertising X, it’s no longer relevant, so ignore that. So I love that that change has happened. To me, that’s exciting.
Doug: Well, it is more expensive. The kind of, the big player that has been doing this for longer, it’s called Megaphone.
And they were purchased by Spotify. So that runs about a hundred bucks a month. And I thought that was kind of the only game in town for actually it was for a long time, but there’s a couple others that I did a little research on. So there’s pod bean and there’s also transistor FM pod bean is about 30 bucks a month and transistor is about 40 per month and they allow.
You have to get like the middle plan or a higher plan to do the dynamic ad insertion. But for the project that I’m working on, it is like critical and it’s only a little bit more expensive than some of the other, uh, hosting companies out there. And I have used a Castos like for this show and for my other show, Mile Hi Fi.
I use Castos and I think I signed up originally with them. I was, uh, kind of acquainted with the founder and I was like, Oh, it looks like a decent product. And I think they had a very simplified billing system or plans. Some of the others at the time, I think this has changed now, but they. Would look at like the bandwidth usage like the size of your file and the number of episodes per month and stuff And I was like, I don’t want to count minutes and have to like shorten my show Because I’m like going over the minutes or something it was just overly complicated and castos was like you can get this many downloads and you don’t get charged for extra, um, bandwidth or anything like that, the time of the, or the length of the show doesn’t matter, all that kind of stuff.
So it was just simpler and I, and I liked the company. So I’ve stuck with them for, you know, five years.
Dusti: At what point in the process would you recommend getting a subscription to Descript and starting some of these other Things like ads, because if I’m thinking about it and I’m like, okay, I don’t want perfect to be the enemy of good and I have the chops, I’m ready to get going.
We’re talking about a 60 to 130 monthly commitment. Once we kick in these things. Do I do it right away? Do I wait and record 5, 10, 15 episodes to make sure I’m actually going to stick with this?
Doug: Yeah, good call. For your show. Are you planning on making money? If so, how?
Dusti: Great question. So, like you, I think I would be flattered if people just listen.
And think, oh, Dusti asks really interesting questions. I like listening to her. I’d love to learn more. Let me dial in. I think that the other two people that I’m doing the show with kind of feel the same, where we’re not worried about making money right now. However, in the future, if I decide to retire, it Would be nice to have a second income stream.
So I think at some point it would be nice to monetize. And then it would be figuring out what does that look like? What kind of ads would we want to run?
Doug: Okay. Your question about using the software and signing up for certain things, I would recommend Descript because it will save you so much time and effort.
And if you didn’t use it, You’re more likely to quit because Editing otherwise will be, it sounds like it sucks. It’s not very fun. I hate it. Um, yeah, so descript that’s worth it and you’re right. So that’ll be, you know, 30 bucks a month for the level that I’m at. I think you might be able to get it a tad cheaper, but just assume 30 bucks a month.
All this stuff, it is probably, I’m telling you the monthly cost is probably like paid annually and you get like a, whatever, 15 percent discount if you pay it all upfront. So keep that in mind. The. The other portion, the hosting, you know, you can’t really get around it. And, you know, you’re going to be paying probably if you, if you don’t get the dynamic ad insertion, it’s probably still like 20 bucks a month.
Do not go for a free option. It will seem like it’s a good idea, but there’s always some downside and usually the downside sucks. So when you. Think, Oh, I’m going to just transfer this over to some other solution. Now that we got our feet under ourselves and we’re moving forward, there’s going to be some bullshit with a migration.
Trust me, they’re going to make it sound easy, but free usually sucks
Dusti: And I’m sure your community on this podcast might not need to hear this. I do think some other people might need to just be reminded that the DIY option. The free option really is not always free because it’s costing you time, energy, and stick to itiveness.
If you are not going to do it because it is miserable or it’s not working, pay the 50, 60 to 100 a month so that you will do this and that you will overcome that imposter syndrome and actually see if this is something that you want to do instead of, oh, I tried it and it was terrible. Well, was it or did you make it that way?
Doug: I think paying up front to, at least for me with a sunk cost, I use it as a motivator. So if you did pay for Descript, which actually now that I’m thinking about it, I’m paying monthly right now for Descript. So if I paid, cause I’m, and I’m paying 30 bucks for me and for my VA per month. So it’s per seat.
Um, I think if I paid all in advance, it might be a little cheaper. All that to say, if you pay for it. You’re like, all right, I’m committed to at least give this a shot for a year because I threw whatever 500 at this thing and another 400 over here. So I need to follow through Otherwise, I just flush that down the toilet.
So use that as a motivator. Are you a sunk cost? Motivation person like that.
Dusti: It is painful if you put a lot of money in and then you don’t follow through So my preference is always to follow through. I do think it can be easy to forget, though, when you pay up front. And then you’re three months in, where when you see it monthly and you’re like, Oh yeah, I’m still paying for this.
Oh, you’re right. I need to keep going. And I don’t know if that’s right or wrong, but I do think that way sometimes, too.
Doug: If you are, if you are uncertain. And you need to test it out, which is a hundred percent valid. Just pay monthly because you typically don’t have to pay all up front. It’s just cheaper if you do.
And I have been burned a few times where I was like, I will save 15 percent by paying for the year and then later realized that I. didn’t want to do. I wasn’t going to use that anymore. And then it ended up costing me more than just paying more for like two months to use the product. So it took me a little while to figure that out.
But If you need to test it, just pay monthly. You can always upgrade and pay the year, um, sometime in the future that they will always let you pay upfront.
Dusti: They’re never going to refuse our money.
Doug: Right. Yep. And one thing, so we talked about the podcast hosting, which hosts the audio files, so that that’s straightforward.
The YouTube side, you know, they. Allow you to freely upload the videos. You don’t have to pay for that, which is cool. There is the matter of having like a website. So typically I think. The podcast hosting companies will let you have like a little webpage or a landing page and a place for your, your podcast to live.
I don’t know if they allow you to have a, like a little blog section in there or more information. They might, it probably depends on the company. If you don’t have a blog section, I would recommend that you like. Get a blog, which sounds like you already had one, right? So, but get a blog, have your website there.
You don’t have to actually like publish a blog on a regular basis, but you can have information on there, like the about page have a little bit more background. Maybe you can have like, um, a promo for something or like someone that, you know, in the community wants to publish something, like you have a place to publish content, which I think is, is good.
Even if you don’t want to have sort of a traditional blog where you. Publish stuff all the time. So have you, have you thought about that portion too? Will you guys have a site?
Dusti: We’ve thought about that portion. And so we’ve done a lot of the basics that Doug has mentioned. We’ve picked our podcast topic.
We have defined our audience. We’ve picked a name. We’ve created a website. We’ve gotten this equipment so that we can get started. I have not done a great job of finding a really wonderful quiet room like this. sound absorbing room, so I need to do a better job of that. We’ve decided our Podcast format, which we haven’t talked about yet here, but I do think that’s interesting like for us.
We’re going to do the introduction. We’re going to interview someone, provide our advice on their financial situation and talk with them about really it. Our show is called Forget about money, because it’s not about money, like most of your, your stuff really isn’t about the money. It is about other things that are going on in your life.
And we can say that money is a math equation. And truly, it’s not, it’s not a simple math equation, because people are involved in feelings and emotions in life. And we want to get to the core of that. So that’s going to be kind of our format. I’m curious. How do you choose a format? How do you organize your episodes and decide what you’re going to talk about and when and how do you lay that out?
Doug: It’s all over the place. So I’ll walk you through the mess. It’s funny. I never really thought about it so much. This show is called the Doug show and I knew That it would mostly be about marketing and SEO and related topics, but I did call it the Doug show because I wanted to talk about like travel and other random stuff if I wanted to, or have a guest where I just wanted to talk to them about their life.
So it didn’t fit into any specific area. I also liked Bill Burr’s podcast where it’s just solo and he would just talk about stuff. So, for this show, it varies. There is a lot of interview. A lot of interviewing and a lot of success stories and guests and stuff like that. And I’ve gone back and forth.
Those are fairly straightforward, just an interview format. Once you do a I mean, honestly, once you do a couple hundred of them, you could have a lot of questions in the back of your head that you know will work for almost any guest. You just have to customize it for the context. And that has worked well.
So we got the solo show. We have some interviews occasionally. And I’ve experimented with this, it’s just short form and do like a 10 or 15 minute, uh, just short little update. It makes you be more concise, just answer the question and not go on tangents. That said, the longer shows, especially the solo ones, I will plan for tangents and tell stories and try to just be more.
Real and approachable. And that’s what I like when I listen to podcasts, I listen to a ton of them too. So those are a couple of the main formats. One thing to mix in is I do a lot of expert interviews too. So people that speak at conferences or they’re like best in class for certain things, I’ll interview them and ask them very specific questions on a topic.
For my other show, Mile High Fi. I do a handful of interviews. So there’s a cohost there and do a handful of interviews. And then we do a mailbag questions, quite a few mailbag questions these days. Now that we’ve gotten more of a critical mass. So there are questions coming in all the time. Those are great.
Those are really fun episodes. And it sounds like you’ll be answering questions on your show. And in fact, when I listened to other shows, I like hearing questions come in. Cause. You hear real questions from from the field.
Dusti: It reminds me of that old Newspaper editorial and I can’t remember her name right now, but it’s like dear Ann.
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah And hey, I have this problem. How would you handle it? Because I think we’re all curious about that. We all want to know That’s why we’re doing this podcast about how do you start a podcast? Yep We all want to know. Right. How do you do all the things?
Doug: And I think it’s one of those where you should experiment with different formats all the time.
And it’s easier to do when you’re first getting started, right? Because you don’t have, um, any baggage. You probably don’t have that many listeners. So it feels like the consequences are lower. And then for me. I partially just like, I don’t give a fuck. So I’m like, if I want to try one, I’ll try it. And if it flops, then it flops.
And I learned something, but maybe it works. The, um, the new show with the focus on SEO, I’m pretty sure I am going to try some short form, like say eight to 15 minute episodes and part of it is like, that’s a format that I’ve enjoyed recently. There’s a book right in front of you there, Dusti, uh, the Morgan Housel book.
And he has a new podcast. Have you checked that out? It’s really good. He’s a writer and he just reads. Like blogs that he have, he’s written on his blog that are sometimes pretty old, but they’re short and I downloaded a bunch of them because they’re short. So I could listen to several of them in a row.
Of course, it goes in one ear out the other, because I’m like doing something else. So I can actually like listen to them again, but I think that. That gives a good signal to the platform if someone’s like, Oh, I like this show. I’m downloading all the episodes that I can get. So I will experiment with some short form episodes.
That are very tight, probably with a script, I will spend time preparing to make sure I don’t go on a tangent and have all the information there and I may even edit those down so that they are even shorter and tighter. Those will do better on YouTube also because hardly anyone, some people do, but hardly anyone wants to watch a 90 minute interview or like me rambling about bullshit, right?
They just want to get to the point. The other portion is all, all interview experts for the SEO show. As far as preparation, just like you imagine, the more preparation you do ahead of time, the better the show will be. And you’ll have better thoughts and more complex discussions with your guests or with your co host.
I probably prepare well, about 50 percent of the time. And then the rest of the time I don’t. So, and it, it’s, uh, Part of the sustainability portion. So Carl and I, for Mile High Five, we’ve been preparing a little bit more, more often, and we can tell in the shows.
Dusti: I’m really glad you looped it back to the sustainability part, because I think if you’re listening to this with the intent of starting a podcast, you need to keep that in mind.
If you don’t have ten hours a week to put into this, maybe you are recording ten minute short
get to the point episodes if you have more time, maybe you test out some different options, I like when people do a recap of their long episodes because sometimes I don’t I get lost in two hours and I loved the show that I listened to. I loved the podcast and I don’t remember all the takeaways. So then when the next episode is just a 15 minute recap or 10 minute recap of everything that they talked about, I’m like, Oh good, sign me up.
Like that’s amazing because I just spent two hours listening to this and I don’t want to go back and listen to the whole thing again, but. I do want that reminder.
Doug: I may need to do that. The other thing I didn’t tell you, Dusti, is um, Descript will also do like AI voices. So I trained it on my voice. So I literally can get, say I have a, an episode with our friends, uh, Carla and Robert.
It was like a two hour interview. Lots of detail, really awesome story, but it’s pretty long. So I could feed that whole transcript into ChatGPT or some other tool, ask for a summary, and then I could just feed that into Descript and it’ll read it in my voice. The only thing is it sounds, it sounds too good.
There’s no, the pauses aren’t natural and you don’t hear like me inhaling and breathing. It’s just like pure like voice and the, the cadence is a little bit off. But otherwise, it’s amazing. It sounds just like me.
Dusti: Maybe we could just do an advertisement for Descript
Doug: And it, this whole thing is, yeah, it’s so good.
Dusti: They need to be your dynamic ad. It should be a show sponsor, for sure
Doug: So, so yeah, yeah. The preparation, it really does pay off if you put more time into it, like you would imagine, and for some of the shorter form episodes that it will be doing, they’re going to be based on blog posts or content that I’ve already done.
So. Like, a lot of preparation is already done and one thing we haven’t talked about explicitly is like using chat GPT or similar tools where you can get ideas on what else to add in there.
Dusti: So tell me more about that. Like, how do you actually plan out your episodes and prepare? How do you make sure that this is going to go well and create a format that is sustainable?
Doug: I typically keep it very simple. I’ll usually just create some bullet points. Just a simple outline is typically how I will prepare a show. Or if you’re really smart, like apparently I am, I just pinged you Dusti and I said, Hey, do you want to ask me a bunch of questions? And then you made the list and you did it.
And I don’t know if you remember when you joined me for the other show to mile high five, you did, you did all the work then too. Really? Yeah. You’re a great, you’re a great partner. Yeah. So, um, but I did other work. Yeah, I did other work here. Um, but yeah, simple outline. I typically don’t script things out, uh, verbatim.
I have a couple of times and you do have to learn how to read and make it. Not sound like you’re reading something. And I have used like a teleprompter, right? Also, which I don’t have it set up here, but I have a little teleprompter. I could put an iPad mini on and I could read whatever and I can pause it and throw in a couple of like real time stories and start it back up and it sounds really natural and no one would know.
In fact, I just remembered I did a live stream like that a few years back and. It was pretty amazing. It cleaned up my speech as well because normally I would throw in more filler words but if I’m reading it, I didn’t mess up as much and it was very clean. And people couldn’t tell? No. No. Amazing. I mean if someone really zoomed in but the teleprompter has the words like right over where the lens will be so um My eyes move a little bit, but not in a weird way.
Dusti: And if I’m doing this and I’m trying to build an audience, how often do I need to make sure I’m putting out a show or putting out a blog post? Do I need social media to advertise?
Doug: So I, it’s totally up to you again. Remember sustainability once a week is a really good cadence, but it does depend on how long your show is.
Once you get going, you may realize, especially with working with partners, you may realize. This is not as much work because it’s spread among a few people so you might be able to do two shows per week But again, it depends on the length of the show So I recommend once per week if you thought you wanted to go a little slower Every two weeks is totally fine and you could spend more time on preparing and marketing which is which is very important Which we’ll we’ll get to but that’s a good cadence.
I think it’s very important to Come up with your schedule and then do it stick to it. Don’t fuck it up I published two episodes per week for four years and then decided this year that I was like, oh, you know what? I’m just gonna do one One per week and see how it goes. And it was great. Of course, now I’m like, I’ll start a new show, but that’s another story.
So stick to the schedule. People expect shows to come out. If there’s some anomaly that’s probably okay, but like you want to be consistent on the day and the time and all those details and it’s not too hard to do as long as you plan ahead and at the beginning, go ahead, build up a pipeline. So you have, you’ve mentioned it already, maybe record like 10 or 15 episodes at the beginning.
Have some buffer in case someone gets sick or you have to travel or something goes wrong, right? just have that buffer and When you first launch there’s there’s some research that you could probably do but when you first launch it is kind of nice To launch either with a couple shows maybe like two or three four shows maybe even five shows all at once or you could launch with like a couple shows a three and then Every day for a week or whatever, like Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
But basically you will publish more at the very beginning. It helps you get more downloads. It helps people like get attracted to the show. And if you do have like a, a kind of a higher velocity of interaction, either with downloads or subscribes or reviews or whatever, then you typically will get a little bit of a bump.
In the charts, so if you do go and browse, you can see that you’re in the top hundred for business podcast or education or whatever. So when you do launch, it is great to have a few that you publish on a faster timeline and then settle back in to your normal schedule.
Dusti: So it sounds like when you’re building your audience, consistency is key.
So having that pipeline built up is going to be critical because life is going to happen and there are going to be things that As hard as you try to stick to the schedule. Yeah, you’re gonna mess it up. It just is What else what else do I do to build my audience? How else do I market my podcast?
Doug: So I think the best way is to be on another podcast They’re podcast listeners, and they know how to find podcasts.
That’s the easiest way. And I think that’s the best way too. It’s really, it’s really good if you can. Just steer just kind of siphon them off from the whoever’s hosting you over to your show Right, and you you can try to you know, write a guest post for someone’s blog or get mentioned Elsewhere, but typically I think best bang for the buck is gonna be being on other people’s shows and
Dusti: then poaching their listeners
Doug: Yep, and
Dusti: I feel any guilt about that
Doug: No, I mean that’s Hopefully, um, it’ll go both ways, right?
So, if someone likes you and they like the other show, like, people listen to multiple, uh, shows. Guilty. Yeah. And, yeah, there, it shouldn’t be, any issue shouldn’t feel, feel guilty or anything like that. The, there’s, there’s some other stuff you, you can do, but I would say, like, probably. Email list. Like if you can get mentioned on someone’s email list, that’s pretty effective too, or their blog, but it depends on the blog and the email list and what those audiences are attracted to.
So if they’re just blog readers. Even if you’re on a huge blog, it’s not really going to work out because it’s the wrong audience. Um, the other thing, you know, you mentioned social media and some other stuff. You can try if you’re interested in social media. I am not and don’t want to spend time on it. So I don’t, and I have seen people, you know, they build a good audience.
They spend a lot of time on Tik TOK. In fact, when I was at FinCon, there were a couple of guys giving a presentation and they spend a huge amount of time on Instagram and Tik TOK. And it looked fucking miserable, but it seemed to work for them. What they did have is a really good community. So I think you could figure out how you want to have that community.
If you’re into communities, then I’m not into communities either. So, um, like for mile high five, Carl is working on a Facebook group. I don’t spend time on Facebook. I don’t want to spend time in the group might do a little bit in there, but it would be like creating content that’s more scalable. I’m not, I don’t want to like post individual posts.
It’s great for people that want to do it, but I don’t want to, I don’t want to spend time on social media. I think if you enjoyed it. It could be a great way to build your audience and get some traction. And I know there are people that are in that are competitors or, you know, part peers or whatever in both of the spaces that I’m in and they do great on social media, but they care about it.
They spend time on it and I don’t. So, um, and it works for me against sustainability. Cause I was like, Oh, I could put some time into it. And then I’m like, I’m not going to fucking do this.
Dusti: Well, and I really like. You’re very anti should storm because I think, you know, there’s that saying that you could should all over yourself and You can and I think that makes it non sustainable because you’re I should do this and I should do this and I should do this and With all of these shoulds like what are the actual challenges that you face when starting a podcast?
Like what are specific things that are gonna stop me or block me or keep me from actually getting going?
Doug: The inertia is tough, you’ve thought about starting a show for a little while and you haven’t yet. So, but once you get going, and I think you’re probably like me in that when you decide that you’re going to commit to something. You’re you’re in like, cause it took a long time to get to that point.
So if you’re like, we’re going to do one show per week, indefinitely, and just like keep moving forward and keep producing content and you don’t have to be the best, you just have to ship it. Some of them are going to suck by the way. A lot of them in the beginning, we’re going to be horrible. It’ll take you 50 or a hundred episodes before you feel a little more comfortable.
You’ll feel a little more comfortable after like 10 or 20, but then after you do a hundred, you’ll be like, wow, I feel like I’m really making progress. Um, but it’ll take a while. And that’s another thing where publishing two per week, like really helped out. I got more reps in and I couldn’t be precious about an episode because I had to ship another one.
Another couple days. So it’s just like get ’em out the door. Some of ’em are gonna suck, but,
Dusti: well, and this is where, when you were saying some of these things are gonna contradict themselves. Yeah. This is where I feel like there’s a lot of just conflicting feelings inside of me personally where I’m like, oh yeah, just ship it.
Just do it. And then also like, and remember, it is not personal. You need to have thick skin because people are going to criticize this and people are going to have opinions and there are going to be internet trolls and all these things. So it’s like, yes, be excited and have energy and not too much because it’s going to suck and you’re going to be disappointed and people are going to say mean things and you’re going to want to have a beer at two o’clock in the afternoon and then follow that up with like three more.
Doug: So yeah, yeah. Well, and the thing is. If people have like negative comments for you, it means they care about something, right? They don’t care about you. No,
Dusti: and they care about something. I’m not, I’m not quite sure what something is. And then my inner judgment comes out and I’m like. I don’t know if this is something you should care about.
Doug: Expect, well, and the thing is, like, you’ve made it if you get negative comments. Because the worst thing is like someone has no opinion and they don’t care and they don’t even make fun of you. And If they have spent the time, wasted their time to like be mean to you, then you’re like, oh, they listened to something.
It’s like, what’s wrong with that?
Dusti: I feel like I’m back in third grade where when a guy likes you, he’s gonna, he’s gonna harass you and be mean to you.
Doug: Yeah.
Dusti: Aren’t we past this?
Doug: No, no, usually, usually they, they, you’re not going to pull that listener in, but luckily there’s a lot of other people. Hmm. Um, and yeah, so.
I look at it as, ah, I got their attention and they had an opinion, which is really good. this is probably apparent because you’ve listened to mile high five some, right? We’re different Than most of the other like financial independence podcasts. There’s a couple others that may get closer or whatever Carla and I are just hanging out and we’re probably abrasive to a hand Actually, we’ve gotten emails where people are like pretty mean like they don’t even they don’t even Post it on like, uh, on YouTube or whatever.
They like send them specifically to us to email. And it’s like, some of them are mean. And a lot of times I’ll reply back. It’s almost always someone that’s having like a bad week or something. And I’m like, Hey, blah, blah, blah. And I like ask questions or like, Oh, I’m really sorry. I shouldn’t have sent that.
IT’s good to be a little bit different. So the people that like the show really like it. And the people that don’t like it, they fucking hate it, which is fine because we’re not going to try to pander to the people that don’t want to listen to it anyway. There’s much better shows that fit what those folks are looking for.
And we’re not it, and we’re not trying to be the show for everyone. We’re just doing our show.
Dusti: Yeah, you’re not Taco Bell. You can’t please everyone. Yeah. Whatever that saying is, whatever’s on a poster
Doug: somewhere. Um, yeah, so you will need to be prepared for some negative. Uh, feedback, but the trick is to read the critical feedback.
And even if it’s not phrased constructively to try to see if there’s some truth in there so that you can get feedback and improve your, uh, you know, the, whatever the format, the delivery, whatever, whatever the critical pieces. And. I mean, this has happened to me where probably the stuff that I, I, I like reacted most negatively.
Like I got a negative comment and I was like, ah, you know what? That’s bullshit. And I’m like, take a step back, think about it, type an angry response and then delete it. And then a couple of days later, I realized, oh, he’s. Right. Like that person is right. That’s why I reacted so defensively. So how can I fix that thing?
Another point is just like, it’ll be crappy in the beginning. You’ll get better over time. May not be linear. So all of a sudden you’re like, wow, we’re doing like much better in the, whatever the intros are much better or the, the content’s a lot stronger. And all of a sudden you’ll figure out that you’re doing a much better job.
So just a continuous improvement is something. You should strive for and look at the feedback, especially the negative feedback, to see if you can get anything from it.
Dusti: Yeah, so really look at all the feedback and implement what you can from it. What other considerations are there? Are there legal considerations I need to think about?
Doug: So you should probably consult your lawyer. I don’t know the couple of the main things are With naming the show and Some of the trademark stuff around that so just make sure like no one was using that name elsewhere before Google it make sure there’s not a business out there with it we actually do know a handful of lawyers that could like help us out and understand IP and stuff like that, but generally You should just try to find something that hasn’t been used before at all.
I really like getting the. com name. So that complicates it a little bit more. Sometimes people will. I think they’re going to start a business or a podcast or whatever, and they don’t, but they have like the. com name tied up and often I’ll just keep looking. That said, there’s a cool, uh, URL or it’s a TLD, the top level domain.
It’s a show. So like, this is Doug. show. So you can, you can do that. And because it’s mostly a podcast, I was like, Oh, that’s fine. I’m not going to get like Doug. com, but I got Doug. show, which is kind of cool.
Dusti: Yeah. I like that. That’s a great tip.
Doug: Um, some people do, I’ve seen this a couple of times where if I was a guest on a show, the host would send me a, like a, a waiver and a disclaimer and some other stuff where I think, you know, legally that protects them.
I can’t come back and say, this is my content. I didn’t know you were. recording it or something like that. Um, very rare. I’ve only had that like once or twice, and I think it was like a bigger company, but generally you don’t really need to worry too much about that kind of thing. I mean, you’re recording it and you’re saying, Hey, we’re doing a recording.
Then they know they’re being recorded. So there’s no secret about that. The other thing like you’ve heard often is. around like legal or investment or professional advice. Some people say it in their outro or their intro where they’re like, Hey, consult your professional. Like I just said, talk to your lawyer.
Dusti: I don’t know. Right. I’m not a lawyer and I’m not playing one on this podcast.
Doug: Yep. So this is just, um, you know what I have observed. This is not advice, blah, blah, blah. So a lot of people do say that. I’ve actually not heard anyone. That I know get sued or, or been, uh, sent any angry letters or anything like that, but.
All the shows that I listen to, they often say, Hey, this is not advice. Talk to the professional. So I would, I would
Dusti: always say that. And I do like the idea of setting your guest up for success and just letting them know ahead of time what the format is, setting them a calendar reminder, giving them a heads up about what the questions are so that if they are.
Someone who internalizes and needs to think through what they’re going to say, that they feel prepared. So, although that’s not part of the legalese, I do think that those are some good tips to pull out too, that you gave there.
Doug: I just created a, it’s like a pre interview checklist. So I’ll send it to you and I’ll put a link in the show notes for this.
But in a recent episode, I was like. Hey, I was on a show and I’ve, I’ve been sent this before, but I never thought to use it myself. And basically it’s a questionnaire and it has like my bio, it asked me for my bio. So I was going to be a guest on the show. So I put in the bio so they can introduce me properly and ask for a headshot.
So I just sent a link for a headshot. It had. for all my properties and social and whatever I wanted them to link to. And then it had questions about topics that I would want to discuss. And it didn’t necessarily have the questions, but it was just like, Hey, what are you an expert in, in this area? And it was like, whatever, three, four bullet points.
And it allowed me to provide the information to the host so that they can ask good questions. And I’m going to start using it all the time. Some of them. It could be overkill for some guests, but it forces the guests to think ahead of time and be able to like introduce themselves and a couple other things where they’re like primed to answer those questions.
It also forces them to think about the good stories that they can tell and have them queued up and ready to go. What I also realized is I’ve been guest on other shows. I was recently on a show. They didn’t have any, they didn’t send me any prep material, so I didn’t know what they were going to ask. It kind of had an idea, but I was like, I’m just going to send them this sheet that has all the info.
So they know, even though they didn’t ask for it, I just want to make sure they’re prepared. And as a. I think it’s totally because it makes everything easier for them. They’re usually having to chase people down for all that information.
Dusti: So I think setting up that format ahead of time, if you are going to host a podcast or start a podcast that has guests, it does help.
Everyone, because you are more comfortable. You have an idea of what to expect. You can expand upon questions. You can ideate a little bit ahead of time because there might be other things. And you mentioned this at the beginning when we were talking about imposter syndrome. Essentially, I, we all have a view of the world and that view is unique and it is special.
So the questions and the thoughts and the ideas and the stories that you’re bringing to the table are really important. And Everyone. No one is going to know that point of view because no one has had the exact same experiences and upbringing and surroundings and environment. So doing that prep work, I think does make for a better experience.
And as a host, I think if you can read through that ahead of time, it does create a better experience for everyone and it helps the guest feel seen.
Doug: What do we have next here?
Dusti: So what has been really rewarding about starting a podcast and about having this podcast or the Mile Hi Fi one?
Doug: There’s so much, I didn’t have a background speaking or presenting at all. I did get some experience like doing stuff on YouTube, but the audio format is a little bit different.
And that is really my main focus, even though I do spend a lot of time on the video. The audio is really cool. I grew up listening to like talk radio and stuff. So I really enjoy the format just in general. It’s been number one, it’s been cool to like, Be able to create a show and then produce like I think I have over 700 episodes Like if you put everything together, which is nuts, it’s crazy.
Yeah, it is and a lot of people listen to it So the other rewarding part is like people actually listen to it and you know, there’s been ups and downs over the years, but When you look at the sheer numbers, it’s a lot of people that like, hear my voice every week and pay attention and they look forward to it.
So that’s a great compliment. And, um
Dusti: That part kind of makes me laugh because the first time I met you, I always listened to podcasts on a higher speed. And the first time I met you and Carl, I was like,
Doug: It must be agonizing listening to me now, too, because, yeah, I think really slow and I talk slower.
Dusti: Well, now it’s become normal. But when I first met you, I was like, wait, don’t you talk faster? I don’t understand what’s happening.
Doug: You will hear that all the time, too. So once you get your show going, people will realize that you talk much slower than you they think you do.
So. Those have been really rewarding. The other part is like the, uh, some of these are selfish now. So, uh, networking has been great. So if you don’t have a podcast, you basically can’t. Email someone and say, Hey, would you talk to me for an hour? And let me ask a bunch of questions. But if you have a show, then people will probably do it.
If you have a show that’s been around for a while, like I have hundreds of episodes or people, I’m like, I have a YouTube channel and they could see there’s a subscribers and a thousand plus videos, right? People are like, okay, I’ll do that. Like if it’s a brand new show, sometimes people will be hesitant.
I’m, I actually am cautious about that. If someone doesn’t have a lot of shows and I don’t know them at all, I’m, I may say, Hey, come back to me when you have 50 shows, like, then we could do it. I’ve been burned a couple of times where I’ve spent a couple hours doing an interview, maybe giving some advice about podcasting or marketing or whatever.
And then they’d never launched the show. And I’m like, Oh, that was. It’s a total waste of my time. They’re not taking any of the advice and I lost like two hours.
Dusti: So well, and it’s interesting cause that person probably had all great intentions and, and like me, I think about these blog posts that I’ve written for optimizing for joy and I’ve never published them because I have imposter syndrome.
So a lot of times it’s not even about you and yet your collateral damage because they couldn’t get out of their own head. Yeah.
Doug: Yeah, exactly. And then all I see is the, uh, them wasting my time. So I’m like, ah, I don’t want to work with them anymore. Exactly. And, okay, so that has been interesting just being able to network with folks.
And let’s see, this one is very selfish. So if I go to a conference or like a campfire retreat or whatever, it breaks the ice much easier because like people know me already, so I don’t necessarily have to walk up. and like say, Hey, I’m Doug and here’s what I do. Like they already know me because they’ve seen me on YouTube or something like that.
It was very slow to happen, but as I’ve gone to like FinCon and you’re just standing at a bar with a bunch of people and someone’s like, Hey, I’ve seen your YouTube channel. That’s pretty cool. So yeah, totally selfish
Dusti: And they ask you questions and they know more about you.
Doug: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s pretty cool.
And then last one is because I listened to a lot of shows, sometimes as folks listen to my show and we may not have met each other before, but we feel like we know each other because that’s how podcasting works. that’s been pretty fun. Yeah, but I won’t mention the specific people, but yeah, that’s been cool overall.
Just like, Oh, people listen to the show and sometimes it’s like a person that I listened to as well.
Dusti: It is amazing how many people listen to your show because even the couple of times that I’ve been on, I’ve had people reach out and it is pretty special where you’re just like,
Doug: Oh, Oh yeah. I, you know, when I forgot about that Dusti, cause like you’d, you’d be on the show and then you’d, you’re like, yeah, I have like 15 people pinged me or whatever on Instagram.
And I’m like, no one, no one did anything. I didn’t even know anyone. Listen to the episode!
Dusti: That’s how I usually feel, too. I have already forgotten that we did it. And then people reach out and you’re just like, this is so nice.
Doug: That’s cool. Yeah. So you’ve seen it happen, too.
Dusti:It is pretty amazing. So what, like, all in all, what advice would you give someone that’s just starting out?
Or what advice would you give me to get me to take the leap?
Doug: Before I answer that, I will back up and I would encourage people to start a podcast, especially. So a lot of the folks that listen to the show, they have websites or they. They think they want to start a website, but a lot of them do have websites and they’ve been like publishing content or they have a successful blog and they maybe have gotten like traffic hits from recent Google algorithm updates and stuff like that.
So I encourage people to spread your platform out and podcasting and YouTube are awesome. It’s a lot, there’s a bigger barrier to entry. So the competition is less than if you’re just doing a blog on top of that, even if your podcast or YouTube channel or the combo of the two doesn’t go anywhere and you decide you don’t want to do it, the skills are.
Fantastic. So even just understanding if you learn how to use descript, so a person out there listening to this, if you learn how to do descript and some of the shit that I talked about, you probably could freelance and be a podcast producer and like knock it out of the park because like, these are sort of.
Being developed as like every week, there’s like a new feature and a new thing that makes it go a little faster or better or easier. And if you were on top of that, you could have like a little podcast production company and help shows or lunch your own ship. The point is, even if you don’t keep going with a podcast.
You’ll learn skills that are very transferable, very valuable.
Dusti: And it sounds like in many areas. So it’s not just the descript. It is public speaking. It’s not using these filler words. It’s the networking. It’s the relationships. It’s also that, that belief in yourself that you can get shit done, which is invaluable too.
So, so you’re going to learn all these skills, which is amazing. You are potentially going to learn additional skills in terms of, oh, how do I actually post on YouTube? How do I grow my audience? How do I start consistency? That consistency piece seems like it could bleed into other areas of your life.
Like you said, you’re great with working out. That’s something that resonates with me. So if you can start to build up that consistency. You get to meet new people that are very interesting. If your audience already has content out there, they might already know what they’d want to do a podcast about and what they’re excited about and what they’ve already proven to themselves that they will do ongoing.
Doug: Yep. And, um, great summary. Going back to your, your actual question, cause I didn’t even answer it at all. I would focus on. The sustainability of the whole project, even if it means producing lower quality, because I mean, that’s the trade off like it’s, there’s no, I’m not mincing words or anything like literally the sustainability costs quality and it could cost you some listeners or something like that, but if you produce nothing, then you have zero listeners.
Well,
Dusti: and I’ve loved that theme throughout. Because you keep coming back to that when you were talking about how much you’re going to spend, how much time you’re going to take, how you’re going to set up your format. All of these things, it wasn’t, Oh, you should definitely do this 30 minute podcast once a week.
No, it was what’s sustainable for you. What is going to keep you in the game? What’s going to keep you showing up and doing this? Because if you don’t do any of it, then you’re here, like I’m here three years later wondering, Hmm, I wonder if anyone would have read Optimizing for Joy? And now we’ll probably never know because I won’t put that one out there, but I will have Forget About Money.
Doug: You should publish it. We could link to it. People, at least a few dozen people will go check that out. We could. It’s off topic, but will you publish it? I’ll put you on the spot here.
Dusti: Yeah, I will publish Optimizing for Joy, which was just a blog about what really is important in life and kind of focusing more on those things and doing them daily.
Instead of waiting for some big milestone or getting so caught up in your Every day and being so worried about things and overcome with stress and anxiety and busyness that you weren’t really appreciating life and surroundings and people. Um, so yeah. Okay.
Doug: We’ll link up to it. Um, all right. So I, yeah, I would say the sustainability portion, you are working with partners too.
So from a. Like a work management standpoint, I think, and I know the people you’re talking about, so I don’t think it’ll be a problem, but having really clear roles, responsibilities. So work isn’t duplicated. That’s always the worst, right? Where two people finish something was like, Oh, that was a waste of time.
I didn’t know you were working on it. So understanding who’s doing what and when and what you should not be working on. So I would say like divide stuff up. So some people own this and you own that. And if you need help, you could ask for it, but basically you stay out of each other’s way. Have you guys already done that?
Okay. Yeah, I thought it’s a good crew. So I think that would. I think that was already going to be taken care of. All right.
Dusti: What did I forget to ask? What else do people that are listening need to know?
Doug: I can’t think of anything super specific. However, I’ll tell you something else related to the show. And this may give you some ideas of like monetizing.
And recently I did a short video on like sales funnels and digital products and some other things like that. So I had the idea actually about three years ago to start the SEO podcast. Cause I realized, Oh, I bet someone, one of these companies would probably buy a show because I see them trying to start shows.
And I sat on it for a little while I worked less. So it was a fine trade off to just work less. Um, but it’s still been in my head and I. I built an email list, so you guys should build an email list if it’s not on your list. And so I have an email list and I’ve created digital products for a few years. I know because I have people that follow me that some of them would be interested in following along.
the journey of launching a podcast. So, I was like, I can’t have like a live workshop where people work with me while I’m launching my show. We’ll meet once a week. It’ll keep me honest, right? I have to say, Hey, here’s what I’m doing. Here’s what you need to do. We’re launching a show. Maybe they don’t have to do it all in the same timeline, but they can follow along behind the scenes meeting with me like once every week or two weeks for, I don’t know, a quarter, something like that.
10, 12 weeks, something like that. And I mean, I’m in charge for it, right. It’s essentially like small group cohort based coaching. And at the end of that, they would be able to launch their own show. They’ll be working, um, you know, potentially if they’re in the same group, they could network together and help each other out and stuff.
Um, So I will be launching that. So if you are interested, you could shoot me an email, feedback at Doug dot show. If you’re interested in starting a show and there’ll be, you don’t have to create a sales page, but the whole package together in the offer, which I’ve done stuff like this before. So it won’t be overly complicated.
And that will be a cool project. And obviously it’s a, it’s a moneymaker, right? So from a monetization standpoint, the very best thing that you can do is. Sell your own product. Like if you work with advertisers, there’s always a lot of waste in the system. But if you create a product, there’s like, it’s exactly what you want to work on.
It’s exactly for your customers or your listeners or whatever. And you’ll always make much more by doing that on top of that. Right. So I could launch this, uh, cohort based, I don’t know if you call it a workshop or course, but at the end of that, I can launch a course on podcasting. Which fits in perfectly because the thing is, so I knew you were working on a show.
Our other friend isn’t here. I’ll probably do a show with Amberley as well to let her ask all the questions. Three other people asked me about podcasting and YouTube in the last week. So Eventually I was like, Oh, no shit. I need to do a podcasting course because people are literally asking me, it’s it’s not scalable.
It’s all my friends. So I’m trying to help out. This is different, right? Cause we’re building content around it, but that’s what I’m trying to do with them. I’m like, Hey, come down to the basement. I’ll show you the studio. You can ask me all the questions you want, but we got to record it because I need to be able to use this some other time.
Otherwise. I’m like, it’s like two hours here. Someone buy me a coffee and I’m like, I could get my own coffee. Um, But yeah, any thoughts on that, on the whole, so it’s, there’s like four pieces of all this stuff going on.
Dusti: Yeah, well, and I love that because I think there is a lot of, there are a lot of questions and how do you make it scalable and how do you make it actionable?
And you do that by creating a course, you do that by bringing people with you along the journey. There’s a lot of. You’re going to learn a lot by having this coaching session and seeing what questions come up repeatedly, what people struggle with, you know, what they can figure out on their own and what they can’t.
It makes me think that there’s potential for digital downloads, especially with this audience, where if there are things that you’re talking about all the time and maybe you create a download, you create. You know, just this packet of material that people can pay to download and use and fill out and follow along with you.
You have some evergreen content. You have some coaching. To me, it just seems like a beautiful way to, I guess, connect all the dots so that people can do it. And I think sometimes that can get lost because there’s a very DIY mentality sometimes, where people think, oh, I can do it myself. Well, You can read all the books in the world, you can do all these things, and if you don’t have the conversations that go along with it, or the accountability that comes with coaching, or the explanation where you can hear someone say something in a different way that clicks, it doesn’t go anywhere.
Doug: Yeah, so it’ll be it’ll be a lot but I’m pretty excited about it It’s definitely a little bit of a shift and you know to your point earlier Like why I started a podcast there’s like already people talking about this stuff already. There’s already podcast courses there’s already you can learn anything you want on YouTube if you honestly if you go to like a Any of the podcast hosting companies, there’s like free material and courses on how to do a podcast, right?
Like they want you to pay for the hosting. They’re happy to give away the education, but I know that some people would want to. Like be behind the scenes. They would want to work with me because of this specific stuff that I’ve done in the past so Even though like I said, I know Virtually, but all all the information that you want you could find it on YouTube.
Dusti: Well, and also there’s that accountability piece there Yeah, you know before we started recording We were talking about how I have IKEA furniture that I need to build And it will sit there until my friends come and keep me company while I build it yeah, or like this blog that I Have written a lot for but never published.
Yeah, you know
Doug: Yeah Yeah, now I roped you in. Okay, cool. I think we covered everything So one last thing so you can download the like the the show notes here with links products and different things that I talked about if you’re interested Podcast feedback at Doug show you just tell me about your story There’ll be more information coming out about that So what else do you want to ask?
Any, anything else that we didn’t cover?
Dusti: I think we covered everything.
Doug: All right. So we’ll link up to your show. Forget about money. Um, any other details or any, any parting words you want to leave people with? I
Dusti: really hope you’ll check out forget about money. It is truly about how money is not just a math equation.
It’s much more. So if you are early on your, on your journey, if you’re trying to figure things out, I would suggest. Checking us out. Okay.
Doug: And just to go a little deeper on that, who, who is sort of like the avatar, the person that you’re thinking of? So maybe someone who is realizing I’m interested in like budgets and finances, but I don’t know where to start.
Or is that kind of it?
Dusti: Exactly, Like someone that makes less than a hundred thousand dollars a year and is interested in this journey and feels like they can’t imagine how to make it happen. And they want some advice. They want another set of eyes.
Doug: Okay. And then you said under 100k, what is, are there some people that would earn more than that that would still get value from the show also?
Dusti: I think so. I think if you earn more and you’re struggling with debt. If you feel like there is more, more month than paycheck, we would be a really good option. Because it really is about figuring out your priorities and also figuring out how can you rein in your spending so that you can create that gap between what you have coming in and what you have going out so that you can start to get ahead.
Doug: Perfect. Okay. We’ll link up to all that stuff. And is there anywhere else that you want people to follow you?
Dusti: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at dustina. louise. All
Doug: right. Yeah. We’ll link up to all that. Thanks Dusti. It was a lot of fun.
Dusti: Yeah. Thank you.