Transcript: Swim University Loses Massive Traffic from HCU, Part 3- DS504

Doug: Hey, what’s going on? Welcome to the Doug Show. My name’s Doug Huntington, and this is part three of the interview with Matt Jovani. We talk about his site Swim University and how it was impacted by the helpful content update and how he’s gonna recover the site. So if you haven’t heard the first two parts, be sure to check them out.

They are available on your podcast player or over on YouTube. So be sure to have a look I have been talking about my new podcast ranking revolution with really a focus on SEO Marketing more on the professional side and like higher level conversations. So check it out I’ll put a link in the description depending on when you are listening to this some episodes might be available in my podcast Might be coming out in a few days, but you can sign up for the email list and subscribe and make sure you’re aware of what is happening.

So I mentioned in the last intro that my plans, uh, changed a little bit Because of the way that I wanted to launch the show In the google algorithm update that started in march So it kind of accelerated my plan And made me want to release the episodes as soon as possible. But the thing is, there’s all this conversation and all this attention on algorithm update, especially on the YouTube side.

I watched a couple of videos from some of my friends and peers out there that were impacted, and then maybe some people that weren’t impacted, but they’re just talking about it. And I see a lot of people are really interested in getting more information, even though. At this point in time that I’m recording this, we actually don’t have more information.

We’re just talking about a couple observations that we may have and then what Google has talked about. But the, the thing that I could take advantage of just from, uh, Interest standpoint from the overall community and audience is I can invite people to Join me on live streams for ranking revolution the new podcast and just like help grow the channel so I could actually invite Well known people to join me we could all benefit from The live stream we could all cross promote and essentially I can Accelerate the growth of the channel and the show by taking advantage of like google Releasing the this core update this very major update.

It sounds like this could be one of the biggest ones that they’re They’ve released it all and there’s multiple systems impacted. So anyway as I Was looking at my schedule and I’m like, I’m not in a hurry. I’ll do this on my own time. When Google released this, I felt pressure to, you know, publish episodes and then just be part of the conversation because I have the right contacts and I could pull interesting people together and help the show basically help the new show.

So do check out ranking revolution and I will circle back with Matt. So when we recorded these, uh, this, this, uh, interview, it was a couple of weeks ago. Oh, it really wasn’t that long ago. We didn’t have any sight of when Google updates were going to come out or that it was going to be done in this fashion or anything like that.

So. Really kind of surprising, but hopefully I’ll have Matt back on pretty soon to hear, you know, what went on with his site. And this is, this is one of the things that’s very interesting too, is I don’t know if anyone has confidence that sites that were impacted. By the helpful content update in September of 2023.

I don’t know anyone that has confidence that if someone wrote all the content by hand, if they were testing the products, I don’t know anyone that thinks that those sites are just automatically going to recover. I think everyone is just waiting to see what’s going to happen. And this episode should come out on March 25th.

And the thing is like. Even in March 25th, like I don’t think Google will be done rolling out the update and they said it’ll take up to a month or so. So we really don’t know what’s going to happen. And sometimes it takes like a couple of weeks after the update before everything kind of settles out. So we’ll see how it goes.

Thanks again to Matt, uh, you know, check out his stuff. We’ll link up in the show notes so you can check out his podcast, money lab, and he’s over swim university. So thanks a lot to Matt and let’s get to the episode.

 INTRO MUSIC

Doug: Okay. And back to the, the source question here from Hando you have been focusing on one thing. How has that been? Has it simplified things?

Matt: No. I just, I, all right. So I my, the, my energy. As a person, I’m, I constantly have to be doing something right.

As much as I go, Matt, you know, slow down. This is my, my, my word for the year is stillness. I’m trying to slow down as a, as a human being, but I have a lot of creative energy and it has to go somewhere or else. I would just watch TV and I would be depressed. So that’s why I would just always do these other projects, but now I have to reign it in onto the one project.

And so within a few months of like. This year, I’ve started so many internal projects and we have so many moving parts within Swim University because again, my energy has to go somewhere. So instead of it going across brands, which is spreading myself thin, and the money’s not as great, it’s now all going into one thing, and the money’s also not great

So it’s like, it’s just, yeah, the timing was unfortunate. The timing is unfortunate. Yeah. So I’m hoping. And again, like, it’s really just managing expectations and, and I’m literally trying to be like, Matt, all you have to do is this, if you do this one thing every week for the rest of your life, it will make money.

And it’s really hard to remind myself of that every day. I have to remind myself that. And when I do have extra creative energy, I need an outlet for it that has not tied to business. Or, or, or income in any way, you know,

Doug: I’ve been, um, another thing you’ll have to figure out. Yeah. Cause like you’re going to have extra energy and at some point you need to direct it somewhere else.

I’ve been playing a little more guitar. I’ve been, I got away from it a little bit, you know, get a little busy and then there’s one song I’m working on and. I’ve been picking it back up just a little bit. And I need to do more and more of that. Cause like, it’s literal, I’m not even that good of a guitar player.

And it’s like literally just for me, it’s a hobby just to do. And it’s like. I’m probably not going to get really super good. But however, we’re middle aged now, right? We may have just as much time. So if I get a little, like, 1 percent better for the next 20 years, Yeah, you’re gonna be an 80 year old shredder.

fucking good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How old do you think I am? Uh, 60? Yeah. But okay. So a couple, a couple thoughts here, and I know we need to wrap up. You got some stuff going on today, but question from Marcus that we sort of skipped earlier. How are you using AI to produce content? Currently,

Matt: I use chat GPT.

I pay for it. I use it to write all of our emails. So, that’s that. We Replacing you. Yeah. So I use it for that. I use AI for writing articles on the website. I use Phrase right now is what I’m using.

Doug: Why Phrase over ChatGPT?

Matt: Because Oh man, there’s a It has this really kick ass feature that I love.

Cause this is what I used to do anyway. Is it It scans the entire website and pulls in all the H2s and H3s and then I just pick the H2s and H3s that I like to build an outline and then prompt it, and then it creates the article. I mean, I have to do a lot of editing. It pulls it from the SERPs, right?

Yeah. Which is what I would do anyway manually, so it does that automatically. It, it, it, I feel like sometimes I use AI and it just takes me longer when I could have just sat down and wrote it. Okay. You know. So I go back and forth on that. We have a meeting scheduled. To discuss ways that we can utilize AI even more to create even more, not to, not to make our jobs easier, but to make our jobs, to make our output higher as simple, as simple as that.

So, we are, we’ll look into, like, so I’ve used, I personally am the only one in the company that uses AI. Steph doesn’t use it, Chris doesn’t use it. But, I’ve been testing tools. To write scripts for our videos and just clean them up, edit. I’ve been using it for writing sales emails, where I would dictate on the phone my sales email, and then I would transcribe it through a descript, and then I would stick that into ChatGPT to basically edit it, and then that would become like a series of emails for a sale or something.

Great. That works incredibly well cause I feel like I’m better at selling. Verbally than I am in writing. And I found a, so we do a lot, we do short form videos. And I found my brother has to like hand do all the captions. And I found an AI tool that will auto edit and auto caption. And animate.

That’s, which is what we don’t do now. So it actually would improve our content. A little bit, by like a, by a little bit.

Doug: Why don’t you use the script for the captions? What’s that? Why don’t you use the script for the captions?

Matt: Because editing into script is my, is a bane of my existence. I don’t understand it.

So. Oh,

Doug: all you need to do, and we can take it offline, but like, did your brother have access to the

Matt: projects or whatever? No. So he does everything in Premiere. Okay.

Doug: Here, do this instead, or at least ignore me if you want, but basically you can highlight the, whatever passage you want to just highlight the text.

Right. Click. Create a new composition and then it auto captions. Make Chris go and edit.

Matt: No, I mean like, no, sorry. Premiere auto captions. Okay. But he just has to there’s no animation to it. Okay. So it, and it’s not that much like it’s. The way he’s doing it actually would probably be faster than the AI way of doing it.

But it, but the AI way of doing it makes it a little bit better because it does the animations for us, which would take forever. But, but again, like there’s the one thing that you can do in Premiere with a plugin is you can do similar to what you can do in Descript where it will like edit out all of the like pauses, but it will also add the zooms.

So it doesn’t look so yeah. So it’s like, and you can just hit a button and it does it and you can like, and you can, uh, do the intensity of that. So there’s a lot of like cool stuff that it does and, and it makes it, and it’s still in premier. So it still has, like, we could still control the volume. That’s the one thing about the script is like, I’m such a audio nerd.

And there’s. And also like color correction. Like, like we are, we do a lot of color correction sometimes too on our videos. So it’s like, it’s just shit that it can’t do. And so I only use the script right now because it can transcribe my audio files. And I think chat GPT can do it, but every time I’ve tried it, it’s failed.

So

Doug: I’ve run into some issues with it, but I suspect it’s something like pretty soon we’ll be able to just upload the audio file to like Gemini or whatever. And then

Matt: it’ll just be like, yeah. And, and yeah, so I’m, I’m looking forward to that day. I’m looking forward to this Zora for B roll. We. I would love to, there’s so, there’s one thing that this software does where it automatically pulls in and adds b roll based on the, based on what it knows about the video.

And I’m like, it, it, right now it pulls it from stock footage, like online, like free stock footage. So there’s not a lot of pool and hot tub stock footage, but I’m like, if it could pull from our own library, that would be so sick. Yeah. So there’s, I have a feeling with AI editing our videos is going to get way faster.

And editing and writing scripts is gets faster. And the one piece of the, our, our system right now that is incredibly fast, but is the slowest is me recording. And so what we do is like we ha like, I mean, last week I spent. Literally one hour in front of a camera just like this with a teleprompter and I recorded 12, so 12 short videos that are all separate, two long form YouTube videos and then one like six minute video that I’m chopping up into like six different ads, right?

And it took me one hour to make all of that. And so that is the slowest part of our process. Because it, I can’t, AI can’t, I can’t use AI for that, for that part. The only thing I, I think AI could help is maybe with teleprompter. Cause you don’t have to copy and paste and add it to the teleprompter every single friggin time.

So. That’s kind of a pain in the ass, but other than that, like, it’s not that much. So yeah, there’s a lot of like, we’re literally gonna have a meeting and, and, and brainstorm like different parts of our process and where we could put AI. And then what would it make it faster? And then if it can make it faster, does it, can we in improve our output?

And do we even need to do that? Like, are we, are we already outputting more than everyone else? Which is true. So do we really need to go faster or, or do we just want to make our lives easier? Like what’s the, what’s the trade off so that we’re gonna have a meeting about that soon.

Doug: And one, I don’t think you guys could use this specifically because it sounds like yours is more like process oriented.

But one thing I did recently was have. Chat GPT in this case come up with different avatars Essentially, uh huh. And then like a list of ideas, which you have a ton of ideas already, right? And then just like match it up like okay this user. Oh, which idea is so that from a video perspective. Oh, well He word perspective.

It’s just like X for this person Y for this person. Yeah, and then you end up I mean, a lot of it is redundant, but this is a, you know, we’re just trying to get high throughput.

Matt: Well, the one thing we’re doing, which I believe is AI, is YouTube research tab. Oh, hell yeah. Fucking game changer. Yeah. So that’s all we’re using for.

It’s crazy. Creating videos. Or at least for ideation, like, I, okay Oh, what was it? So I, I had a business problem, right? Where I was getting emails about something about can I, can I say what it is? Yeah. I was getting emails, people wanted to download our videos and distribute them privately in their own company.

And I’m like, no, you can’t do that. But I was like, oh, that’s an opportunity to perhaps sell an enterprise level package, whatever, whatever. And I went up to Steph and I was like, Oh, I’m kind of mad because this guy, you know, didn’t know any better. And I was just like, it irks me a little bit. And so I was like discussing with her and she had an immediate decision.

She was like, no. I was like, okay. But I didn’t like that answer. So I went down to chat GPT and I was like talking with it through a problem and it was providing legit responses to me. Like, all right, here are some things you should think about when making this decision. Bob. I was like, Oh man, I didn’t even think of that.

That’s pretty good. I, you know, and it’s like, Oh, I, it doesn’t have to be a thing that creates content. I could just talk to it. Right. That’s cool. Like I can work out my own problems. By just having a conversation with it as like a, as like a member of the team. Yeah. Yeah. That’s pretty nuts.

Doug: It’s funny. I heard someone talk about that and as the tools have gotten better, I, I did this, I actually I created, well, it was just the chat bot at the time, but now you can create your own GPT, right?

You can customize it. I was like, all right, you’re Tim Ferriss, Seth Godin, and Derek Sivers. You’re my business coach. And I laid out my plan for the podcast. It was like, I’m going to do a podcast. I’m going to have a bootcamp. I’m going to turn it into a course. I’m going to sell it. Here are the issues I know I’m going to run into.

What other issues? And like, just be my business coach for this. Interesting. And yeah, just like you said, I was, if I’m just like, I’m thinking of this, what am I not thinking of? What issues am I getting? And

Matt: that’s, okay, that’s, that’s a good use case. It reminded me of, uh, I built, I built a chat GPT of me.

Of Matt the pool boy. And I was like, I, and I built, I, I wrote it so that I thought we could answer customer service because we get not customer service, but people just email us like I have a 20, 000 gallon pool and it’s green and blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, you have to read this whole fucking thing from these people.

And again, we’re doing this completely for free because there’s people just email us and I’m like, I’m not going to just ignore them. So we have to answer them, but I can’t do it. And I’m the only expert in the company. Right. Everyone else is like stuff is an expert and Chris is slowly becoming an expert, but like they’re not yours.

Yeah. Yeah. It takes years. So I go, Oh, let me just clone myself as an expert. And, and I fed it our entire book and our entire website of content. So it, it knows to check our stuff first before it answers the question. And if it doesn’t know, it doesn’t give a bullshit answer. It says call a professional or whatever it is.

So I’m testing it. Where I’m getting emails and I’m just copy and pasting the email without even reading it in a chat GPT and it just answers it and I have to read it first to make sure that it’s like, is this like, what’s the hit rate of accuracy on this? Because otherwise I can’t just give it to my brother and be like, just use this because otherwise if it’s wrong, then we look bad.

You know what I mean?

Doug: Yeah, can you like fine tune it and say like, that was a good answer, that was a bad

Matt: answer? Yeah, so that’s what I’m essentially doing over time, but it’s, it’s not, I’m not confident in it, but it’s good enough for me to do, and then I just read it and go like, yeah that’s fine, or I’ll just change a sentence or two and it’s like, that, I can answer questions super fast with that.

And it’s

Doug: like less draining than you having to like write and think about it. You gotta

Matt: read it! And you got to read, you got to read these people’s emails and they don’t know how to write. So it is a run on, it is a, it’s a paragraph this thick in a run on sentence. It’s, it’s like no

Doug: punctuation, no

Matt: capitalization, if anything, they use ellipses way too much.

They capitalize fucking everything. So it’s, it’s just, it’s honestly, it takes more effort trying to understand their writing than it is to answer the question. So what I usually do is just, is I just do control F and look for a question marks. Yeah. And I just like read that. Okay. Cause I’m like, I don’t need your whole fucking story.

Just what’s the, what’s the question? Yeah.

Doug: It’s like reading a recipe for a cheese sandwich.

Matt: Jump to recipe. Yeah.

Doug: So. Couple things to follow up. We’re going to talk about MoneyLab in a second. You mentioned Alex Hormozy. Is that how you say his last name? Yes. And I never, he, he didn’t run across my feed very often and.

A couple people mentioned him, I’ve now listened to a couple interviews with him, but very smart guy. He was on the modern wisdom podcast, which I like Chris Williamson quite a lot. I don’t listen to every episode, but anyway, I listened to Alex’s episode and I think for certain people hearing from him could be really inspiring for me.

I was like, there’s some stuff I really want to push back on. And the thing is, I think Alex is really pushing for like greatness. He’s pushing for excellence. He re he mentioned a couple of times, you know, like I have a specific quality standard that I really want to make sure. I apply to all, like everything that I’m doing.

And he maybe talked down on people that do good enough. I’m a good enough person. I do good enough. I mean,

Matt: if you see his website, it’s very good enough. Oh, it is. And his book design is very good enough. Oh, really?

Doug: So he presents himself really well. On the podcast. But anyway, I push back on a handful of things, but I’m like, great if it inspires people, but I’m like, I definitely, you know, you run across someone who reads like one or two articles and then they’re an expert on something.

I feel like there might be people that maybe hear Alex’s content and then. They get really inspired. Maybe, maybe half a percent of people or 0. 005 percent like can actually live up to what he’s talking about. But I think there’s just a lot of people that think they are and they’re just kind of floundering around.

There’s no question there. I’m just like, it’s a really interesting message that he’s Talking about yeah, and I’m like, I don’t think it fits for like most people ever and it just ends up with people being assholes

Matt: Yeah, so, Like, all of these people, and I’m talking about health people, business people, wealth people, anyone out there giving, cooking, even.

You have to think for yourself and take it all with a grain of salt. And, and, honestly, if you can, question everything. Like, go in it skeptical. With him, specifically, like, Yeah, I, I was just very, I’m still skeptical of every single piece. I’m like, what’s the motivation or like, what’s the, or, you know, sometimes I just ignore stuff.

I’m like, that’s not me. I mean, I don’t need to hear that. And it’s fine. You know, that’s his, that’s his take. And like, especially with like family stuff and like friend stuff and like just the level, the hardcore leveling up and the, the ruthlessness, I’m like. Alright, I, yeah, some people probably need to hear that, I’m not one of those people, but I can think for myself, and I’ve been doing this long enough to know, like, to not get suckered, not suckered, cause there’s no, there’s nothing to be suckered into, but I guess And even with like Chris Williamson or like Andrew Huberman or any of those guys, it’s like, just take everything they say with a grain of salt.

Not that they’re wrong or right. And just make a decision for yourself. That’s all it’s like, if you really want to take Andrew Huberman’s advice and like the morning routine, like. Uh, fine. Go for it. But like, I’m like, okay, that makes sense to me. But this other thing doesn’t make sense. So I’m just not going to do that.

And I’ll be fine. You know, like everything in moderation again, again. So like, I think that’s the same with businesses sometimes, even with like, I thought what he said about the ruthless focus on one thing. I’m like, I’ve had the opposite thought. And the more, the longer I’ve been doing business, the more I’ve had the reverse, which is like in the very beginning, I was like, I want to be like a Vox media company where I own 10 or eight different brands that are, that are spread across different industries.

And like, cause that’s what I do is I do content. And then as I got older. And got and had more business experience. I realized, Oh, but I could just do one of those things exceptionally well. And I bet you that would scale faster. And it has. And so when he said that, I’m like. That’s what, that’s what I thought.

I came to that same conclusion independently. And so, it aligned, and it was a reminder, and that’s why I made, and I went, Okay, well it’s time to make a decision now because I’ve been validated. Like, my idea has been validated. By somebody who claims to be a millionaire or whatever. Or somebody else who I was like, okay, that makes sense to me and I agree with it.

And then there’s other things where I’m like, that doesn’t make sense to me. And I don’t agree with it. And so I just don’t take that advice, but sometimes, and I think this is where the, the problem with all of this lies is you’re just, I’ll just keep hearing. Different shit all the time. Constantly. In the age of like, swiping 60 second reels, you could change your mind and get unfocused very, very fast.

And it’s like, no, you kind of just have to like, get, take the advice, write it down. Turn off your phone and just stare at that and execute until it doesn’t work. You know what I mean?

Doug: Yeah, we, I gotta keep it moving cause I know. Do you have to be back at a certain time or? No, not at a certain time. Okay,

Matt: just eventually.

Great, just at some

Doug: point. I think with like Huberman and Peter Attia and a couple other folks. Oh, I didn’t even know that. I got like um, I got burned out from like over optimization. Yeah. And it’s just like. It does, things don’t have to be over optimized and that’s where like, Hermosy, it’s like, yeah, sometimes like just chill the fuck out and I’m sure he does right at certain times, but as I get older I don’t have the same drive as I used to and I don’t care as much and the thing is like, you were like, okay, you were talking about your business and you were like, it’s probably easier or better to 10X in this area, but I would, I think people have to make sure like you have your reasons why you want to do that.

Yeah. Some people are just like blindly doing it and some of our friends and they’re just like grow, grow, grow anything. And it’s just like, you should ask why like five

Matt: times most people that I’ve talked to who have, and again, this is just anecdotally in my own world, anyone who has tried to scale fast or just wanted to scale and build a team and have a big business and whatever, whatever ends up hating it and going, I wish, Oh, I envy your approach, which is like, I don’t have a big team.

I have, there’s three of us and I’ve, and it’s never been big because every single time it got to like four people, I’m like, I can’t, this is, this is stressful now. Right. Fuck stress. And I, you know, to me, to me, stress is the ultimate killer. It’s like, so that is the my North star of like, If I can avoid that problem in my life, and I, and again, there’s good stress and bad stress, and I’m talking about bad stress.

Like unnecessary stress, like stress that you put on yourself for no reason. It’s like money stress. It’s like, alright, you can fix that. And it doesn’t have, you don’t have to make a billion dollars to fix that. That, I think, has always been a North Star for me, and I’ve watched other people grow and then crash and burn.

And I went, okay, so I just have to avoid that. That’s all. You know, and I, and again, like I, the more people there is to manage, the more I’m like, this job sucks. I like, I like doing videos. I like making content. You know, I don’t want to work on the business. I want to work in the business. That is, I like that.

And it’s like, and again, this is all about having your own thoughts and conversations with yourself and, and knowing thyself so that you can see this content and be like, fine, not for me. Right. And it’s okay. Like it’s, it’s not, not that you have to call everything you see. Fuck that guy or this is bullshit.

It’s like, no, it’s just not for me.

Doug: And the thing, like the perfect, I think of this with books a lot or movies or whatever, but it could be content from a individual. You know, I read a lot of books and I might only get like one thing out of it. Totally worth it for like a life changing. I, yeah, to pay like 20 bucks or 50 bucks or whatever for the book.

It’s perfect. I don’t have to agree with everything in there. We don’t have to agree with everything we see from every

Matt: creator. That’s the thing. You’re right. Take the good shit. Take the And that’s where you, I guess you just, if you know thyself, then you can, you can be your own filter and go, and I can watch this stuff and I can like it and I can disagree with it and I cannot get angry at it because I, because you are comfortable with who you are and what your opinions are and what your, you know, and when you hear something and you get distracted, I think for me that’s the, the problem is like, I’ll hear something and I go, Oh, that’s cool.

Write it down. Go, and then I go execute it immediately, and I’m like, and then I’m like, what the fuck am I doing? Why did I just do that? Why did I just veer off the, the path? I did it, I did it two days ago. So it was like, and I, like halfway through the day I went What am I doing? Yeah.

Doug: All right. So speaking of veering off, you relaunched, very quietly, you relaunched MoneyLab.

So what’s the story with that? The podcast. Yeah, yeah. The podcast. Yeah. So what’s the story?

Matt: The story with that is as short as I can make it, I used to be a part of an in person mastermind when I first moved to Boulder. And it was, I would, I would go and I would Uh, it would be my turn to speak and we had 45 minutes per person.

And when it was my turn to speak, I would, I would stand up and just start talking about my business problem in, in the, in the same way that you would like, Hey, take a breather every once in a while, I wouldn’t do that. And so I would just talk and talk and talk and some people would interject things here and there, but it would just get me, get the wheels turning.

By the end of the conversation, by the end of the conversation, wasn’t a conversation by the end of the, my, whatever I rant. I had to solve my problem. And then somebody pointed out to me, she said you know, you seem to figure out your own problems if you just talk it out loud and that was years ago.

And then I remembered that statement and I thought, I wonder if that’s actually true. So I went into my garage. And I had a problem I was trying to solve. I was trying to, uh, figure, like, brainstorm ways that I could improve content on the website, like the written content. And I took my phone, and I put the voice memo recorder on, simply so I didn’t feel like an idiot talking to myself.

And I was recording, you know, I felt like I was doing something, and not just walking around having a conversation with nobody. And so I was pacing and I was having the conversation and I wrote, I had like a notepad and I was just writing down all these ideas and then I, at the end of it, I was like, wow, I got 10, 000 steps in.

So I was like, I covered a health thing that was effortless and I look at all these great ideas I have from like just working it out, out loud. And so I was like, oh, I’m going to do this as a practice, as sort of like a, as like therapy for myself. It’s just like kind of talk to myself and, and, but I was recording it.

And I would just delete the recording afterwards. And then one day I thought, and then one day I didn’t have anything to talk about. And I was like, well, I don’t need to go out in the garage and pay us. Cause I don’t have any problems, but I still want it. My 10, 000 steps, you know? So I, and it felt effortless to get that.

Cause I was again, engaged in something else. So I ended up deciding, Oh, well I’m recording it. What if I just publish that and now I have another reason to record not just to solve my own business problems, but to maybe have a rant about something or to talk about something. I just worked on, you know, and just to recap the day or whatever.

And I was like, maybe people listen to this. Maybe they won’t. I don’t I don’t know, but that’s not the point of it. But I was like, this is just feels like I’m just gonna put it up because again, it’s, it’s, it’s zero effort almost because it’s like, I’m doing it for a different, I’m doing it for two other different purposes.

And now it’s a third. Now I added a third purpose. So it’s like killing three birds with one stone. And so I started doing it, but I was recording so much. And again, the quality is just on my phone. I do it in my garage, which is semi soundproof, but it does, it is, you know, whatever not the best sound quality, but I record it so much.

I’m putting out three a week because it’s, and I’m booked all the way out until, I mean, we’re recording this like kind of mid February, maybe late February. And I have episodes three days a week booked out all the way until the end of March. And I’m like, well now it’s all out of order. Now I’m talking about shit that’s, like, I’m talking about Sora.

And I’m like, they’re not gonna hear about that until April. Yeah, yeah. By then

Doug: Are you gonna, I mean, it doesn’t matter much, do you care? Like, you didn’t even announce this, right?

Matt: I, I, no, I think I said something about, yeah, like, people are finding it now. They’re like you know, oh, I, they’ll email me about, you know, cause they’ve still, I’m still around.

Or I’m on Twitter and they’re like, oh. Wow. I didn’t even realize you had this like podcast going. And I was like, yeah, I just like, I think I maybe mentioned it once on Twitter, but Twitter’s not the same as it used to be. So I don’t get the same kind of engagement because I haven’t been active in a long time.

So I think, no, I don’t have an email list anymore, so I can’t

Doug: send an email. I was going to ask you if you, so no email list. So you’re just, how many downloads are you getting? Do you know, do you even look?

Matt: I have looked. It no, I don’t know the answer to downloads. I do know the subscriber count because I use Transistor and they have like a kind of a guesstimate of the subscribers.

And when I launched the first episode on January 1st, Uh, there was like four hundred and fifty subscribers and it quickly dropped to a hundred and twenty two.

Doug: Okay. Yeah. So it was like old legacy subscribers from the

Matt: old show. Yeah. So I think we’re roughly at about, I think like one twenty five, if I had to guess, of like subscribers.

So again I am putting out an insane amount of content, it feels like, and not all of it. I mean, a lot of it is just like maybe unlistenable of just me. Like I just did one yesterday where I just like ranted about an email I got from somebody who was trying to steal my content and I turned it into something but I was like, I need to talk about this because no one understands how I feel and this is how I feel and like, what am I going to do about this problem, you know, and well, 30 minutes,

Doug: the interesting thing is like.

So you, you have it all technically in a, you, in a format that you can turn into text. Like you could write a book this way. Right. Yeah. And it doesn’t have to be like a coherent book. It could be like a string of blog posts or whatever, but like, just from that standpoint, you could whittle down like the top 10 percent cause I know a lot of it’s just like.

stream of consciousness, like you take, you prepare or whatever, but like some of it is not going to be relevant. Some of it’s,

Matt: some of it’s prepared and most of it is stream of consciousness. Yeah. But like

Doug: the best 10 percent of whatever 50 hours or whatever, like

Matt: it’s probably, there’s probably gold in there.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just needs to be mined

Doug: with, with AI. Like that’s, you could do it yourself. Right? Like back in the day, someone would just pour through the transcripts or whatever. Yeah. But nowadays, like you literally can make this a pretty easy thing.

Matt: Yes. I wouldn’t because there I don’t want a business attached to it.

You know, like I really, this sounds insane, but I’m like actively not trying to, like, I’m actually not making money. Like on purpose, there’s no ads, there’s, there’s nothing. And the reason for that is because as soon as I get a taste of the money, I’m going to be like, I can scale this, or I can, I should put some effort into this.

And if there’s no money that I’m just. Doing what I’m, I’m just doing what I set out to do and I’m blindly just going. And if it grows like that kind of is money to me, you know, if it’s like, Oh, attention. Yeah. Magically I got like 500 subscribers and this was like, you know, after a year of doing this, like that was pretty easy or whatever it was, whatever it is.

I’m like, fuck, I should do this more. And it’s like, no, just keep, I don’t know. There’s no end goal. So it’s like, it’s kind of interesting.

Doug: I know what you’re talking about and we’ll, we’ll start wrapping it up here. For me on YouTube. I turned off ads and like YouTube does something as far as like building the brand, something, right.

It does something, but it was really important for me to just be like, I don’t want ads running. I don’t want to be tempted. Yeah. And like I said, like I, it does play a role in the business and the top of the funnel and all that kind of stuff. But just like you’re saying, as soon as I’m like, Oh, I’m making X amount of money from running ads, then it changes everything.

And it leads to burnout, right? All these people leads to burnout. All these YouTube YouTubers are quitting and it’s like, yep, fuck you. You fucked up. You created a business you hate. Yep. ’cause you didn’t realize it. And then you’re making like a million dollars a year. And now you’re like, oh my

Matt: God. Yeah, I have to leave.

And now you have all these employees and it’s, it’s a big, it’s a big to-do. And it’s like, no, you were just a creative person. Yeah. You know, like you didn’t have to make this a business. They’re like, they want

Doug: to go back to

Matt: like what we’re doing. So I, I mean like this brings up a an interesting conversation about brew cabin and I’ve had, it is the, like, people have asked me when I started doing the podcast, like, why don’t you do that?

Like, you know, you can. Like, what, why’d you stop doing that? And the reason is so that I could focus on some university and I also stopped doing money lab, but it’s like, but I’m doing money lab technically. Right. But it doesn’t make, you know, it’s just a podcast. And I’m like, all right, that’s so easy.

Again, it’s a by product of what I’m already doing. I’m also brewing. That is where my creative energy is going. The extra stuff that’s like spills over from swimming diversity. Why aren’t, why aren’t, aren’t I doing content for Brew Cabin? I know that if I did that, I could, I could get a lot of creative energy out that way and I still wrestle with it.

’cause I’m like, I think as soon as I tie it to money, it’s screwed. ’cause I’ll start to create con like I’ll, I’ll write a, a post and I, and I’ll go, well no, it has to rank. Because I’d need the traffic so that people buy the thing and whatever. And when it’s like, what I would love to be able to do is just write an article for the good of the homebrewing hobby and the community of those people.

Like, Hey, I did this thing. It’s definitely not going to rank because I don’t know what it could even rank for, but I’m like, I just needed this. Document it. If you find it, good for you, good for the industry. You know, or it’s like, I wrote a book on this subject, and I’m just going to give it out for free.

I don’t need the money that feels good, you know, but then, but then I think, yeah, or you could just take that energy, put it in the swimming diversity and actually make money. So, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a catch 22, I guess. And I’ve heard some

Doug: other. of our friends, like go back to just like their personal blog.

Like they’ve sold their shit or whatever. Personal blog, no analytics, maybe an email list, but it’s like they’re writing for themselves. They can’t even get into the metrics and analytics because they don’t have it on. And I’m like, I don’t, I don’t have analytics on duckhuntington. com. Smart. And I’m I’ll probably slowly start blogging like more personal stuff that doesn’t fit.

And I’m like, I don’t care if it ranks. Yeah. It’s just like. My thing. So, okay. Very cool. People can check out money lab. Yeah, that’s not trying to do anything crazy with it. No, but we’ll link up to it. Where else can people find you, Matt?

Matt: If you have a pool or a hot tub, uh, swimming diversity, uh, you know, I’m, I’m probably going to end up doing some brewing content.

So if you’re a home brewer like us brew cabin is the name of the website. It’s a YouTube channel with four videos. Five videos. They’re good.

Doug: Okay. So we’ll link up to that stuff. We’ll check in and probably a few months or so and hear how things are going. Cause I think the word on the street is like, everyone thinks the SERPs are so bad that there’s going to be an update that sort of like March we’ll recover things.

Yeah. People are like, it should be pretty soon. Yeah. My hope is March, hopefully in time for the, the spring rush out there. So

Matt: thanks Matt. Always fun. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Doug: And that wraps up the three part interview with Matt Giovanissi. Like I said, I’m going to try and circle back with Matt in the next couple weeks here, maybe after the smoke clears from the march. Core update and get an update from him. I mean, at the time that I’m recording this, it’s March 11th. So you could peek behind the curtain of, of the scheduling, but I’m heading out for a conference in a couple of days and then I’ll be heading out on a, on a trip, um, you know, shortly after that.

And things are just kind of busy. So I got to schedule. Kind of schedule and plan this stuff ahead of time. But anyway, I’ll circle back with Matt and the thing is, it’s just crazy out there when I’m, I’m looking at my YouTube feed, there’s just all these, uh, insane updates. I mean, there were, there were channels, there were people like working on stuff for, for like a year publishing bulk AI content.

And they’re just like, I have, I have nothing going on now. Like everything is crashed and I’m not sure, like. I’m not sure what some people were thinking. Like, I think we knew that it wasn’t going to be a long term strategy, but I think people were really like putting, putting almost all of their effort in.

So I feel bad for those folks, but it’s just, it was such a flash in the pan. Well, who knows? I mean, things, things could shift, but anyway, thanks for checking out the, uh, the series here. If you have any thoughts on dividing up long episodes into shorter ones, let me know, I know sometimes my. Podcast consumption, uh, changes.

I mean, I like long form content, but sometimes if it’s divided into smaller pieces, it’s a little bit easier for me to consume or, uh, sort of divide up depending on what I’m doing. Like I’m about to go on a walk outside and I may listen to like a short 30 minute podcast because I want to finish whatever it is I’m starting versus like kind of continuing to listen to a three hour podcast over like five or six days.

So let me know feedback at doug. show. And I think that’s it. So thanks a lot. We’ll catch you on the next episode.