Doug: Hey, what’s going on? Welcome to the Doug Show. I’m Doug Cunnington and I’m pumped to have Jesse Lakes on again. How are you today? I’m doing really well actually. Thank you. And we chatted last couple episodes about your, your new book out there. So if people want to check that out, we’ll put a link and check out the other episode.
Today we’re talking video and when we popped on, I was like, man, your setup is looking good. The video’s sharp. The lighting’s good. You combed your hair today. Beautiful. You look beautiful. And I know you’ve been spending more time on video. Yeah. So what have you been working on? We’re gonna talk about, um.
What you’ve learned, your assumptions beforehand, what you’re doing and just all the details. ’cause I, I do love video. I geek out about a lot of the, the technical aspects, the long form, the, I don’t really love short form, but it’s interesting to, to make the distinction and like what will work for different formats.
So what have you been working on, Jesse?
Jesse: Yeah, so, you know, back to the book, um, there’s a lot of information in that book and some of us like to read, some of us don’t. So, uh, talking to my team, we, we came up with this whole idea of a hundred video challenge. What’s a hundred little bits of information that can come from the book or elsewhere that, that the general Amazon Associates community would benefit from, from hearing.
Uh, so from that, you know, dropped into chat. BT went back and forth a few times and came out with this massive spreadsheet of. You know, here’s a hundred knowledge bombs. Here’s a hundred things that, that, uh, should be shared. And that has led to this, this journey of trying to really step up my game in, in the video world.
I’ve got a a lot to go. I’m looking at my screen inside of the camera right now. I’m catching myself and I need to look at the camera. But it’s, it’s been, yeah, really interesting ride to. To learn more and see what is and isn’t working. And that’s, it’s becoming it’s becoming more and more apparent.
It’s also really good to walk more in our client’s shoes. I, I did a lot of video stuff way back in the day. Got a minor in media art, so having a video camera was always important, but really haven’t done much in the last, you know, 10, 15 years. So it’s, it’s good to, yeah, try to, try to appreciate more and more what our clients have to go through.
Doug: Interesting. Yeah. It does put you directly in their shoes where you’re like, how how’s this gonna work to like actually get people to like and trust you and all that. What was your minor in, what’d you say that was?
Jesse: Media arts
Doug: media arts.
Jesse: Yeah. So University of Montana, I got a business degree, but media arts was all the cool kids running around with, with cool video cameras.
Um, and yeah, I, I filmed a lot of skiing and snowboarding and Kai Extreme sports stuff and done a few commercials on the side. And that was just, this was, that was the passion degree that I wish I would’ve continued with, but so be it. I’m here now today and it’s all working out.
Doug: Interesting. Very cool.
Yeah, I, I have to watch myself to go on a tangent in this area. ’cause this, this is where I’m like, oh, this is interesting. Now we can just talk about 30 minutes on that. But I am. Thinking about some of the stuff that I was into and I was into photography and like kind of disconnected, but like I’m using A-D-S-L-R and like base I, I used Canons back then.
I’m using them now. It’s like the same lens format. I think I have a lens over there that’s like 35 years old, like roughly the timeframe as I was getting started with it and everything. And then guitar stuff too. So I’ve like gravitated back. So it’s interesting. I Do you feel that where you’re like, I kind of, you know, you have, you have a, uh, like a draw to like film in the storytelling portion and just like the video part.
Do you feel any of that, like your interest from when you were a young, a young man?
Jesse: Absolutely. I. I dream of having my own YouTube channel right, where I can actually, you know, take a hobby and, and share it and et cetera. And I’ve got, you know, hundreds of hours of raw footage on my phone. I just, I haven’t given myself permission to, to go and actually do something with that.
And it’s, it’s, uh, this is, this, is it feeding that thirst to some degree if, you know, getting to spend some more time on camera and, and getting to record it. But, you know, ultimately I think it, like you said, it comes back to that storytelling piece and. Informational educational pieces are, I think, you know, very important for, for kind of this greater purpose I’m on, but for my, for my soul, for my passion.
Yeah, I, I, there needs to be a, a bit more storytelling and, and video storytelling to, to kind of really, truly scratch that itch. And I’m, I’m not quite there, but yeah, I think about it pretty regularly.
Doug: And then one more question along these lines. Yeah. So are you, are you still doing ultra races and such?
Jesse: I haven’t I haven’t done a race in a few years, but, um Okay.
It’s, it’s time to get back in. I’ve been training a lot and, uh, bumping up the miles, but not, not officially signed up for anything right now.
Doug: So time consuming. I, I mean, I. I stopped running years ago and never ran longer than a half marathon. But I love, I love video content as we’re talking about.
Mm-hmm. I watch a ton of YouTube and I actually love watching Ultra Runners, even though I’m not in that area. I have friends that actually run and, and they are, you know, in this area there’s quite a few short range
Jesse: Colorado. Absolutely. Yeah. That’s, that’s a awesome place to be.
Doug: World class runners around here.
But, but anyway, I love those, vlogs, they’re just interesting. It’s a journey sometimes whatever people training and stuff like that. So I could see, I could see that when, when you have a, a ton of free time, you can work on that. So, okay. Back on track a hundred video challenge. So you got all these ideas mm-hmm.
And you have a team and you guys are executing on it. What was, um, the plan as far as like the timeframe and any other details around like. What did you do after you have all the videoed ideas?
Jesse: Yeah, so again, having been able to work with a lot of creators, you know, learn some kind of basic pieces, but the goal was, yeah, to get a hundred videos out by the end of the year.
We started in, I think May and very quickly realized that. The process wasn’t going to work. You know, having, having some degree of process with an editor made a huge difference and, and radically helped with, with, uh, throughput. Batching videos was another one that made a huge difference as well. Instead of trying to do one a day, you know, let’s film for an hour and see if we can get.
You know, 3, 4, 5, you know, little bits. Not having to mess with the equipment. You know, we had a, a bit of a snafu earlier, right? When the mic stops working and the audio goes to crap, you know, that that doesn’t work. So what, what little bits and pieces do you need? You know, having, having lighting, right?
I’m in Seattle where it’s pretty gray and, uh, that’s a bit of a bummer to get good, vibrant colors. Um, so yeah, figuring out kind of the gear piece, so all that kind of. Little bits. There was a lot of education, uh, and learning. And then we kind of started to pick it up. And then initially I was just gonna film myself.
And then ultimately, um, Lee, the, the guy that runs our podcast, you know, he would sit on the other side of, of Riverside and, you know, direct me and coach me and I’ll, you know, having a hook to start off with, all these little things really make a difference. I’ve got a long ways to go, but starting to pay more and more attention.
Again, I’m looking at the screen, not the camera, you know, but that’s, uh, I know these things. I need people. Paying more attention to it. So it’s been a lesson just kind of in creating the videos and getting the videos out or even just, you know, getting the videos out. I’ll talk on that for a minute.
Right. Initially, you know, the editor would just drop ’em in a, a Google drive and then we’d go and do it and then discover this amazing tool, metrical. So a metrical, you upload it and you can, you know, kind of post a multiple different places as well and get the stats back. So that’s been a big unlock as well for kind of getting these videos across but also learning kind of some of the hard facts around platforms.
LinkedIn is different than YouTube. Surprise, surprise. Um, you know, Twitter is, is different than all three of them. So what fits where and how has been has been a huge lesson that you know now that we’re about halfway through. And I don’t like this lesson because it means that we have to tweak what we’re doing after we kind of already figured out a bit of a process.
But I think it’s gonna be important to actually ensure what’s being created is as valuable as possible to as many people as possible.
Doug: So. You are learning along the way ’cause you’re getting more experience. What’s the feedback loop look like? How often are you evaluating? In little example, right? So you’re like, Hey, if we batch, that actually helps the throughput.
But then you lose that feedback loop, basically it means if you do whatever, five videos that day and you have a little mistake that you did in the process, well you fucked up five times then instead of just the one time if you were doing it. Like in a series in that parallel, in a batch. So what’s the feedback loop look like?
Have you adjusted it based on something like that?
Jesse: Yeah, so we’re, we’re, the feedback loop is there, but it’s not, it’s not tight. Right. To your point. Um, we’ll film some videos and then the other feedback was, okay, you know, in the back the blinds need to be open because we need a little bit more backlight before I had the blinds down to use, you know, so it’s, yeah.
There were, you know, four or five, 10 videos that weren’t ideal. But also because we’re doing essentially shorts, right? It doesn’t take more than, you know, 30, 45 seconds maybe, maybe a minute max to share one basic concept around, or one concept around Amazon. So I think because they’re shorts, some of these mistakes aren’t as in your face.
Uh, it’s kind of meant to be. You know, authentic and raw. So I, I, I’m getting away with a lot more than if we were filming, you know, good legit, you know, long form content where you know that that buzz in the mic really makes a difference or the lighting really makes a difference. So definitely getting, uh, you know, some, some benefit of the doubt from from the audience.
Doug: You mentioned the platform differences. Can you highlight some of those for specific platforms?
Jesse: Yeah, so, um, again, I spend most of my, during the pandemic, I cut myself off from most all social media. But I’ve, I’ve definitely kind of spent more time on, on LinkedIn. Um. Seems to be more of what I enjoy, more educational lessons for, for leadership, et cetera, entrepreneurial stuff.
So I, because I spend more time there, I also, yeah, it’s kind of where I, I post as well. Videos on LinkedIn don’t seem to be kinda that perfect match yet. From, from kind of playing around. Engagement on these videos is, is, you know, it gets better all the time. There’s definitely something to be said about getting consistent and posting every day.
Like I, I think that’s great advice, but I’ll notice that while I post a video every day, the days that I also post. Uh, a, a photo or some sort of tidbit or, or lesson, those will get, sometimes even 10 more, 10 x more engagement than, than the videos. And so I think, you know, back to what’s, what’s for me working on LinkedIn is really just great photo, uh, often goofy ’cause.
Those that know me, know it’s hard to be serious. Um, and then, yeah, some sort of wisdom and a little bit of a hook. And the, the text does significantly better than, than some of the best videos. Some of the, I think that the best knowledge that I can, I could pass along, I think that’s accentuated even more.
Again, we’re using this great tool metrical, you know, when it gets to, to Twitter. Video on Twitter also doesn’t seem to be working as, as well either. So. Again, while video is the push, it seems some of these platforms do prefer text and photo over, over video.
Doug: Do you think it’s because the LinkedIn algorithm is favoring that because that’s what people are wanting to consume or do you have any other theories?
I, I, I don’t know.
Jesse: Yeah. I, I think with the content that I’m creating, it, it’s not. Pure entertainment. There’s an education aspect as well, which requires you to kind of zone in and to zone in audio often helps, but unfortunately, most of us, not fortunately or unfortunately, a lot of us are on our phone, uh, flipping through, maybe in a subway, maybe in a crowded space where audio is off.
And yes, there’s subtitled, but it’s, it’s more kind of seen again there to educate or they need quick, quicker snippets where that video of being able to focus and have audio on just doesn’t work. So I think that. Over-indexing of, of mobile doesn’t work well with the, the videos that I’m, I’m shooting.
Doug: Gotcha. You didn’t say it, but I will. People were in the bathroom, they’re in a stall and they don’t have the sound on you now. That’s what we’re all doing.
Jesse: The truth comes out.
Doug: Yeah. Remember, remember back in the day, you could go to the bathroom for like five minutes now, like 30 minutes goes by. Your legs fall asleep.
Jesse: Getting old socks.
Doug: Yeah. I’ll send you the video so you could, you could put this clip over on LinkedIn. This is the kind of stuff that really people once slowly talk.
Jesse: Well, it’s also really interesting, you know, kind of this toilet talk as well, but like the whole idea of clipping Right. You know, making it just as tight as possible.
Getting that one soundbite versus, you know, taking the time for a full podcast, a full, you know, Joe Rogan podcast. You know, that just, that’s. Seems to be a pretty extreme where all of us are just, you know, flipping on TikTok, flipping on on Instagram, you know, or LinkedIn. It’s, it’s all very quick in your face.
Little bit.
Doug: Are you mentioned, uh, short, so are you focusing on short form? Can you talk about that decision or are there some longer videos too?
Jesse: Yeah, so part of my journey comes from Lee’s journey. Uh, so Lee again is a guy on our team that really focused on Road to Revenue podcast. Uh, Doug, you were very early guest of ours.
I think we have done 25 guests in, in, you know, kind of the first season. But those were, you know, longer form interviews, uh, anywhere from 30 to, you know, almost even 90 minute conversations. And those. Again, podcasting, you know, we had a lot to learn. Um, you know, there’s, there’s definitely some, some things that we did wrong there and they got some engagement, but we’re finding that, you know, taking these really smart people, especially in their, you know, respective areas and just point out the sound bites that are helpful has been really interesting.
So while we initially over-indexed on longer form, we’re finding that yeah, pushing on shorts. It’s kinda that quick hit, right? Getting, getting a little bit posting it. We, we are posting, you know, three to four shorts a day across social media channels. We’ve got a, you know, the editor, this woman is amazing.
So it’s, it’s kind of helping get some juice going and, and definitely helping our, our, our YouTube channel get some views. But I wouldn’t say that it’s been great for kind that long form. Or long term goal of, of, you know, building the awareness at the top of the funnel and, and driving clients, you know, to, to sign Genius Link signups.
It’s not hurting, but it’s not, not the win that I think we initially hoped for
Doug: with the shorts or the long video formats too. Short form both
Jesse: of them. Yeah. Uh, yeah, we haven’t, we haven’t cracked it yet, so we’re still, again, very much learning what does our audience want and some people. It’s exactly what they want.
Had an, I was at Vid Summit, um, in Dallas two weeks ago and, um, sat down and this, this guy came in and, you know, saw my shirt and got my little genius link. Oh, I’ve heard of you. You know, uh, blah, blah, blah. You did an interview with the, uh, the founder of, of Tube buddy. So again, that episode, you know, probably got more engagement, but you know, nothing compared to some of these other things.
But I don’t think he liked it. Maybe he watched only half of it, but because of that, we had a, a really great conversation and, you know, it led to some interesting things. So I think there’s, as I’m telling the story, one of the things that I’ve learned just recently, but I should be very clear about, is that your vanity metrics, your, your, your views, your, your likes, your dms, those are nice, but they’re ultimately vanity metrics, right.
We really have a relatively limited audience, and those people seen it even though, you know, they may not have commented or done whatever. That’s, that’s what matters. So I am seeing more of that. My, my, my friends and I go to these conferences, um, people are mentioning that they’ve yeah, seen, seen me on LinkedIn more and more often, and I think that has some value as well.
Doug: Interesting. Yeah. So many areas I want to go into there. Um, you mentioned. The funnel, so mm-hmm. That, I mean, at the end of the day, right, you’re trying to build brand awareness, especially with shorts, because like it’s. Probably it would be unusual if someone saw the short. They’re like, oh, wow, I now want to buy the product at the end and use Genius as a service.
So it’s like there’s a lot of connections that must, I mean, it’s a funnel, right? So it, it is interesting. But that is the ultimate goal, right? Brand awareness and then you work ’em down the funnel, which you have, uh, optimized in another way. Right? So any other details on that, that are important to talk about or like how you’re orienting the specific content?
Jesse: Yeah. And that’s the, the grander scheme, right? You know, here’s our playbook, you know, um, education. Get that excited, you know, and then if they can, someone can, you know, get the book, read the book, you know, buy the book further education, and if they’ve seen some videos and or read some chunk of the book.
They’re kind of the perfect client for us at that point. So not everyone’s gonna go through that funnel, but yeah, what’s, what’s lower risk easier and kind of work their way down, because ultimately we’d love to have them as a client and, you know, help them make millions of dollars. But if they don’t know it’s a problem, or they don’t trust the brand, or they don’t know me to some degree, yeah, that’s, that’s a much harder sell.
Doug: Right. And the other thing, uh, you mentioned the long form podcast, and it’s a whole other animal. I enjoy the long conversations and the interesting piece, uh, similar to the, the funnel idea is like the relationships you could build through a longer conversation, especially like the, you know, 45 minutes plus.
Absolutely. Very interesting. Versus, you know, creators passing, you know. Each other and hey, what’s going on? And you, you know, you can’t really build that big of a relationship, but if you talk a few times, you’re able to do that. So even if. I think you, you know, that through all your relationship building through the many years.
But, and then do you have any comments on that? We
Jesse: built a relationship, right? You know,
Doug: a hundred percent. Yeah.
Jesse: I mean, we’ve, most of our conversations have been recorded on, you know, there’s definitely been a lot of email back and forth and yeah, again, connecting in person and drinking beers together definitely, uh, was good.
But most of our conversations have been exactly, you know, podcast style. So I think you’re a hundred percent right that there’s, there’s some great opportunities to, to learn and connect.
Doug: Perfect example. Okay. So as we’re wrapping up here, what’s coming up next? So you mentioned the a hundred video challenge.
So you’re a good ways through it. You’re optimizing, you’re learning, you’re figuring things out. What is next? What’s coming up?
Jesse: Yeah, so there’s a, a couple more videos that I really wanna get done, but then it sounds like really need to be moving more from that plain vanilla education to. My thoughts and how I feel and where I’m seeing things from what we read and what we’re seeing, you know, as a executive, as a thought leader in this space, that’s actually in theory going to be better content than again, just telling people how to keep from getting kicked outta the program or the difference between Amazon associates and Amazon influencer.
So I’m excited. Try, I’m a little nervous. Um, you know, again, I’ve. I do have opinions. I, I try to listen more than I talk in general, but this’ll be, this’ll be good to see, to see what happens, um, if, if this is, if this is helpful.
Doug: Yeah, I, yeah. I’m super curious and we haven’t talked, um, like we basically hopped on.
Talk for like two minutes and hit record. So I was thinking that very thing. So the education piece is cool, like people are learning a little thing, but the stories that you could tell even, I mean the ones that are gonna do best are the ones where it’s like, this didn’t work out, here’s why. Like those are the best stories.
No one wants to hear. You know, when you, uh, when you won the race or whatever they want to hear. Like, I came in third and I had a really rough time. Right. And it was a total, you know, it was a mess. And I made all these mistakes way more interesting. So not that you made a ton of mistakes, uh, through your career.
I
Jesse: made mistakes left and right. I’m, I’m good at making mistakes
Doug: and. Yeah. So if people wanna follow along, see what you guys are working on, where should they find you? And we’ll link up so you don’t have to spell URLs or anything like that, but what platforms should people check out?
Jesse: Yeah, so I post first on, on LinkedIn, um, that’s again, kind of where I tend to gravitate.
Uh, thankfully, ’cause I’ve got a great team. A lot of that content then gets dispersed out to most all the channels. Um, but yeah, if, if direct integration or in interaction with me is, uh, definitely easiest through LinkedIn.
Doug: Perfect. Alright, thanks Jesse. And uh, it’s good to catch up buddy. We, we can’t let so much time go by next time.
Jesse: Absolutely. Nah. Thank you so much for your time, Doug. Great to connect.